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I would have had the inspector come back to check that the work was done properly.
Inspectors do visual inspections and their responsibilities do not include digging into walls to see what is inside. If they did, inspections would cost thousands of dollars.
That's why the law requires disclosure of things that only a seller would know - e.g., about repairs and improvements that have been made. Then the buyer has a chance to check to see if the proper permits were secured and the work was inspected.
StPeteBuyer, you should be talking to your attorney, not random anonymous people on a forum. You seem to have a very clear case of a seller doing something wrong on the cheap and then trying to pass off the consequences to a future buyer. I have to wonder what else is under those walls? What else did the sellers not disclose? Is there something even worse you haven't found yet? What else might the sellers reluctantly come out with if taken to court? Personally, I'd be talking to an attorney about going after the seller, Realtor, and contractor who did the work. Somebody has to be held responsible for sticking you with expensive repairs and hidden problems.
This is business. It's your money, your time, and your future investment. Don't let them get away without consequence, particularly when it sounds like FL law is on your side.
I agree. He stated to me directly that he was aware that "electrical work was done" but felt he had no obligation to ask the seller's what they had done, who had done it, whether it was permitted or whether it was disclosed. He says he's not an electrician and doesn't know/care to know if such work requires a permit. He says he's unaware of any obligation for real estate agents to concern themselves with these things or advise client's to disclose the information.
In my area, we put the fear of God into sellers about disclosures/representations.
When in doubt, disclose,disclose,disclose.
I have been in situations where I knew that the owner's basement had flooded and yet the owner denied it. There was still a ring around the wall from the high water line. Owner still insisted the basement had not flooded. I eventually walked away from the listing because if the owner was lying about something that obvious, who knows what else was going to pop.
In my area, everyone relies on the seller's representation that all work has been permitted or not.The onus is on the seller.
So it sounds like somewhere between the seller and the contractor, there is a problem. Your attorney should take over , from here.
Thanks middle-aged mom. It makes me feel better just knowing that there still are people out there with integrity. It seems to me that every lie diminishes, tears apart, unravels the fabric of our society. And so does every lie that justifies a lie and every dishonest action that is taken to hide a lie. We've purchased older homes before where the warts were disclosed to us. That disclosure gave us a chance to weigh the risks and make an informed choice. Why these (highly educated professionals) tried to get away with this I just don't know. But I feel better now that I have vented.
3) In Florida, sellers have to disclose anything that materially affects the value of the home.
I am not familiar with Florida laws on disclosures, but my guess is that there is a knowledge qualifier that you are leaving out. In other words, it is more likely that the Sellers are obligated to disclose only those things they know about which would materially affect the value of the home. In some states sellers are also responsible for disclosing things they reasonably should have known about.
So the missing link is proof that the sellers knew about the code violations, which I assume you would have included in your facts, had you been aware of any such proof. And even if Florida is one of those states where "reasonably should have known" is the standard, your facts still look like a long shot to me. After all, once you became aware of the problem, what did you rely on for evidence that it was fixed? The same certification that the seller was relying on. And since I assume you would characterize yourself as a reasonable person, I don't see how you are able to prove that it was reasonable for you to rely on the contractor but that it was unreasonable for the sellers to rely on him.
But the broader problem that I see is that despite the lack of disclosure - whether or not such lack of disclosure violated disclosure requirements - you knew about the knob and tube and didn't do anything to fix it other than ask for a statement from the seller's electrician. Disclosure is intended only to notify you that there are issues that YOU need to look more closely into. Disclosures, in and of themselves, are not intended to place any requirement on the seller to fix anything. It is the buyer's responsibility to require the seller to fix the condition once the buyer becomes aware of an issue with the condition of the property. Instead, you only required that the seller provide you with a statement from the seller's electrician that it had been fixed, with which requirement the seller complied. You chose to rely on a statement from the seller's contractor instead of confirming it yourself. From all the facts I've read, that is where I place the blame.
But I hope the situation works out well for all involved.
I am not familiar with Florida laws on disclosures, but my guess is that there is a knowledge qualifier that you are leaving out. In other words, it is more likely that the Sellers are obligated to disclose only those things they know about which would materially affect the value of the home. In some states sellers are also responsible for disclosing things they reasonably should have known about.
So the missing link is proof that the sellers knew about the code violations, which I assume you would have included in your facts, had you been aware of any such proof. And even if Florida is one of those states where "reasonably should have known" is the standard, your facts still look like a long shot to me. After all, once you became aware of the problem, what did you rely on for evidence that it was fixed? The same certification that the seller was relying on. And since I assume you would characterize yourself as a reasonable person, I don't see how you are able to prove that it was reasonable for you to rely on the contractor but that it was unreasonable for the sellers to rely on him.
This was what I was trying to get at, but you did a better job that me of getting to that point.
I know that they knew that it was a code violation because of information that they passed on in the "house file". That's all I should probably say about it here.
On the question about whether they had a duty to fix it.
When we went back to the sellers we did not go back with the goal of getting a piece of paper. We told them that knob and tube being present in the house was a deal breaker. We demanded that they investigate it, consult with a licensed electrician, take all of the steps necessary to make sure that it was no longer present in the house. We told them we would set a closing date that would allow them to make sure that it was all done and to send us evidence of completion. During that discussion they never told us about the electrical work completed last Summer. I also have proof that they took deliberate steps during this process to make sure we didn't "discover" the work that had been completed in August.
By the way, are there really reasonable people in the US who think that rewiring a house / replacing the knob and tube is something that doesn't require a permit? Are there really people who would be ignorant enough to do that? Put their family at risk? I just can't believe that. This guy is a PhD educator.
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On the question about whether they had a duty to fix it.
