Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-09-2009, 08:30 PM
 
982 posts, read 1,093,158 times
Reputation: 249

Advertisements

But I can still hope, can't I???? LOL!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-09-2009, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,490 posts, read 40,182,593 times
Reputation: 17322
Quote:
Originally Posted by canterm View Post
From a legal stand point and my professional opinion in law, the seller would prevail, but would not recover costs of litigation. The standard to recover costs from the losing party is a very high legal standard. My outlook is the following: if the buyer filed a cliam against seller (which could even be done in federal court) the seller will win on a motion for summary judgment but still will spend atleast $4,000 in costs. It is doubtful an attorney would pursue this unless the buyer was paying hourly because there is very limited recovery potential here. Infact I would as an attorney believe if the buyer were to have any chance at recovery it would be from their agent if this info was required to be on disclosed (not too common in most states).

Enough said, but I think all parties involved can learn something from this transaction and hopefully everything works out the best for everyone
Actually this might not be true. In Oregon the prevailing party can get legal fees paid by the losing party. It's in our contracts. It's why filing a legal action isn't to be taken lightly here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2009, 10:30 PM
 
47 posts, read 231,305 times
Reputation: 34
As a practicing attorney I can only stress how hard it is to meet the standard for receiving costs from the other side. Even if the contract specifies it, it will be dificult because most courts will interpet the contract to the transfer of the real estate not the actions of cancelling the utilities. I am not advocating a suit being filed here but predicting (as case law shows) 99% of the jurisdictions here based on these facts will not award costs. The standard (including the federal rule of civil procedure) is the case must be completely without merrit, must not fall within the current law or an extension of it, must be completly frivolous. If there are any other attorneys here I predict they will reach the same conclusion. The other thing to keep in mind according to rule 11 of civil procedure a pary may only be sactioned after the other side warns them and the party in question does not rectify the problem within 21 days.

I would be interested in hearing from real estate agents to what the disclosure requirements are in their state, if any, pertaining to the transfer of utilities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
Actually this might not be true. In Oregon the prevailing party can get legal fees paid by the losing party. It's in our contracts. It's why filing a legal action isn't to be taken lightly here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2009, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,490 posts, read 40,182,593 times
Reputation: 17322
Quote:
Originally Posted by canterm View Post
As a practicing attorney I can only stress how hard it is to meet the standard for receiving costs from the other side. Even if the contract specifies it, it will be dificult because most courts will interpet the contract to the transfer of the real estate not the actions of cancelling the utilities. I am not advocating a suit being filed here but predicting (as case law shows) 99% of the jurisdictions here based on these facts will not award costs. The standard (including the federal rule of civil procedure) is the case must be completely without merrit, must not fall within the current law or an extension of it, must be completly frivolous. If there are any other attorneys here I predict they will reach the same conclusion. The other thing to keep in mind according to rule 11 of civil procedure a pary may only be sactioned after the other side warns them and the party in question does not rectify the problem within 21 days.

I would be interested in hearing from real estate agents to what the disclosure requirements are in their state, if any, pertaining to the transfer of utilities.
There is no requirement on the disclosure of utilities. There is nothing to disclose. It is 100% the buyer's responsibility.

In Oregon our contracts specify, small claims court (if less than $7500 in damages), mediation, then arbitration. If the buyer engages in a frivolous legal action, I think the seller would have a case to get their legal fees paid by the buyer.

I don't think any sane attorney would take this case on for the buyer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2009, 11:45 PM
 
Location: West, Southwest, East & Northeast
3,463 posts, read 7,281,314 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
There is no requirement on the disclosure of utilities. There is nothing to disclose. It is 100% the buyer's responsibility.

In Oregon our contracts specify, small claims court (if less than $7500 in damages), mediation, then arbitration. If the buyer engages in a frivolous legal action, I think the seller would have a case to get their legal fees paid by the buyer.

I don't think any sane attorney would take this case on for the buyer.
I think the OP was right in saying that the buyer was stupid. The truth of the matter is - the buyer may have been forgetful or ignorant by not arranging for the utilities of his newly bought house to be activated in his name immediately after closing, however the buyer was indeed stupid to send a letter to the seller stating he would go after the seller's insurance and him personally to recover damages that his (the buyer) actions (or lack thereof) were absolutely and totally responsible for causing.

Some of you people may feel sorry for the buyer because they are young and it's their first house. I feel badly for them too, but the bare-bones reality of the matter is - the buyer is at fault and the seller clearly has no responsibility for the damages the buyer caused to his house.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2009, 06:46 AM
 
42 posts, read 119,521 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyma View Post
wait wait wait!! Why didn't the OP have the water turned off too????? Had it been, might not have been as big a mess


where are you OP?
First of all, I will respond separately to "crazyma" (appropriate name) as she/he has made more than one post about "why the water was not turned off." Well crazy ma, the water , as is RE taxes, is already pro-rated on the settlement statement on the day of the closing...so there is NO WATER to turn on or shut off!!! Understand now? The oil in the oil tank ( I had an oil furnace) is also calculated by the broker and adjusted on the settlement statement and paid to the seller as the seller owns the remaining oil on the day of the closing. The furnace operates off electricity to function and such if there is no electricity there is no heat. I hope you now understand and can rest assured that i did not have the "water" turned off.
================================================== =======

Now I will recap EXACTLY what happened the day of the closing. We closed at 9 am. After about 40 minutes all documents were signed and the attorney cut me a check for $550,000 out of his attorney funds. The buyers quickly left the closing as they had a plane to catch. I then gave the attorney who told me he would have the new deed recorded in about an hour my cell # and for him to call me the minute the deed was recorded. About an hour later he calls and says he has just recorded the deed. I call my insurance and cancel my policy. I call the electric company and tell them I no longer own the house and wish to cancel service. They tell me they will cancel/ switch off service as of midnight that night ( about 13 1/2 hours later).
I hear ABSLOUTELY nothing until weeks later about this incident which is when I get this letter from the buyers themselves telling me that they found the pipes burst 4 days after the closing and the mess. I then find out through the grapevine ( this is a small town and people talk) that these buyers had ALREADy spoken to 2 attorneys BEFORE they sent me their BS letter, and both attorenys had told them they had NO case. Also they tried to go after their own broker and as a last resort sent me the letter to try to squeeze money out of me. So all of you who felt ...ohhh... so so sorry for these "poor buyers" what do you think of them now???
They had absolutely NO BUSINESS contacting me at all which is why I responded to them as I did. Ohhh and Big Dragon? Sorry you didn't get your "entertainment" value.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2009, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,544 posts, read 3,583,230 times
Reputation: 1242
They were first time home buyers; they didn't know. But to be so cruel as to poke fun at them was rediculous and immature on your part. Hope nothing like that happens to you or your family. Do you have teenagers? If you do, it'll (pay back)be coming around soon!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2009, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,544 posts, read 3,583,230 times
Reputation: 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlucky110 View Post
Thank you Ms. Fancy Pants. At least you get it. As for the rest of you talking about karma and the like...these buyers threatened me with a lawsuit which was TOTALLY 100% baseless because of THEIR stupidity which is why I responded as I did to them. They somehow wanted me or my insurance to pay for THEIR mistake!!! No, I take that back...not their mistake...their stupidity and their ARROGANCE for even bothering to write me! Why even send me a letter when the problem was due to their negligence! They need to suck it up and learn from their mistakes! Not harass a seller weeks after the closing. And yes I will enjoy my cruise this summer! Can't wait!!!!
If you took the time to show them it was their fault and not yours then most likey they would have realized it and dropped the charges and you might have saved money on the JD and your time. That would be the mature thing to do. What a waste of court time I 'd say.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: West, Southwest, East & Northeast
3,463 posts, read 7,281,314 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyewrist View Post
They were first time home buyers; they didn't know. But to be so cruel as to poke fun at them was rediculous and immature on your part. Hope nothing like that happens to you or your family. Do you have teenagers? If you do, it'll (pay back)be coming around soon!
What does being a first time home buyer have to do with the fact that the buyer tried to pull this stupid stunt of getting money out of someone that did exactly what is expected of them when selling a piece of real estate when the buyer is clearly at fault through their own ignorance and stupidity? I don't care who the buyer is, the buyer had no reason (cause) to blame the seller for the damage. The buyer could be the Pope's teenage daughter - it does NOT change the fact the buyer was out to recover money from whomever would pay for the buyer's mistake...even from you if the buyer could scare you into paying.

How would you like an inexperienced driver that runs a red light and T-bones another vehicle to come after you for damages just because he bought the car from you a few days earlier? How stupid is that? Oh, but the sweet young driver is so young - he probably just failed to pay close enough attention to the stoplight.

If you are such a caring individual for the young and the inexperienced - I'm sure I can find many millions of young and inexperienced people that fit into that class that would be more than happy to accept your hug and your money. Think about what you're saying!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2009, 08:48 AM
 
Location: West, Southwest, East & Northeast
3,463 posts, read 7,281,314 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyewrist View Post
If you took the time to show them it was their fault and not yours then most likey they would have realized it and dropped the charges and you might have saved money on the JD and your time. That would be the mature thing to do. What a waste of court time I 'd say.
What charges? What JD?

As I understand it the buyer never filed a lawsuit. The buyer doesn't have a JD...because no reputable attorney would ever accept such a stupid case from the stupid buyer! Thus, the seller doesn't need a attorney to do anything... The seller only shared the buyer's letter with his attorney, and both got a big laugh out of it. Did I miss something here? Was a lawsuit filed against the seller? Or have you failed to comprehend the situation?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top