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After having the home inspected and finding a few issues that we knew we could deal with (chimney repointing, patio door replacement, laminate flooring for a few rooms, outdated bathrooms, etc...) -- we discovered issues once we moved in and got a better look at the place:
1) Rotted window sills (between the panes) in at least 4-5 windows, which led to the discovery of:
2) Termites & carpenter ants and
3) Rotted sheathing
The inspector filled out a termite certification and also reassured us that the windows were satisfactory, albeit old.
Since we have asbestos siding, I can't just call a contractor to have them remove the siding to replace windows and sheathing (the inspector assured it was OK if we just didn't mess with it). I removed some myself so that the windows could be replaced and the sheathing and studs could be redone.
I've been advised to call the bank and call the office of consumer affairs. I already called an attorney, but was asked for a $5k-$6k retainer, and this is becoming a money pit - $2k for termite treatment, at least $4k for replacement windows and siding, a week of my vacation time cashed in to deal with this...and that's for just the (2) windows. If we did the others, it would be much more expensive.
We just don't have another $6k to comfortably put down. The inspector offered to cover the termite treatment, but I've been insisting on going through his errors and ommissions insurance.
We've got everything documented in pictures. We live in an area in which almost no one every fills out a seller's disclosure (they pay $500 at closing to not sign it).
What's the right course of action? Who would I even speak to at the bank? Going to small claims court seems like little consolation, since the cost is going to go far beyond just a few replacement windows.
I also suspect that the owners knew of these problems, but covered them up (for example - new nails were used in the affected areas of the siding, but closer inspection revealed them to be the wrong nails).
After having the home inspected and finding a few issues that we knew we could deal with (chimney repointing, patio door replacement, laminate flooring for a few rooms, outdated bathrooms, etc...) -- we discovered issues once we moved in and got a better look at the place:
1) Rotted window sills (between the panes) in at least 4-5 windows, which led to the discovery of:
2) Termites & carpenter ants and
3) Rotted sheathing
The inspector filled out a termite certification and also reassured us that the windows were satisfactory, albeit old.
Since we have asbestos siding, I can't just call a contractor to have them remove the siding to replace windows and sheathing (the inspector assured it was OK if we just didn't mess with it). I removed some myself so that the windows could be replaced and the sheathing and studs could be redone.
I've been advised to call the bank and call the office of consumer affairs. I already called an attorney, but was asked for a $5k-$6k retainer, and this is becoming a money pit - $2k for termite treatment, at least $4k for replacement windows and siding, a week of my vacation time cashed in to deal with this...and that's for just the (2) windows. If we did the others, it would be much more expensive.
We just don't have another $6k to comfortably put down. The inspector offered to cover the termite treatment, but I've been insisting on going through his errors and ommissions insurance.
We've got everything documented in pictures. We live in an area in which almost no one every fills out a seller's disclosure (they pay $500 at closing to not sign it).
What's the right course of action? Who would I even speak to at the bank? Going to small claims court seems like little consolation, since the cost is going to go far beyond just a few replacement windows.
I also suspect that the owners knew of these problems, but covered them up (for example - new nails were used in the affected areas of the siding, but closer inspection revealed them to be the wrong nails).
Advice is appreciated.
Well, can you just take all of your supporting documentation and file the report yourself with the inspectors insurance company? Did you have an agent working with you on the purchase because they also could give you some advice? Who recommended this particular inspector - you just found them, an agent or the bank? I really think it sucks that in some states a seller can just pay money to 'not disclose' material defects - was it that type of disclosure (i.e., he did NOT have to sign any type of disclosure on material and adverse effects he was 'aware' of with the house) Maybe also talk to another attorney who would be willing to work on a contingency basis instead of a huge retainer? A lot of attorneys are just, well . . . you know. But IF you have a clear cut case, then maybe one will work on a contingency basis.
Buyers - stop trusting everyone else to determine the condition of your future home purchase. Some inspector are better then others and all inspectors miss things. Termite inspectors can not see inside walls - there are some dogs that can sniff out termites.
I have bought hundreds of houses and always rely on my own inspections. If a home owner appears to carefully maintain their house it is probably in good condition - sellers disclosures are a good read but don't trust them completely. Inspections are usefull but still do your own due dilligence. Poke around - if you see rotted wood in one place it probably is in many locations. Abestos siding is a problem to remove - try to side over it.
In termite regions of the country - have a termite inspection and remember if the house is well maintained with ongoing termite prevention you are much safer then a poorly maintained house.
Learn a little about houses and do your own inspecting - if the house is generally poorly maintained - walk away or factor the cost of repairs into the offer price! Trying to get compensation from sellers and inspectors after the purchase is usually a waste of time - this is your house so hire an inspector - but also do your own basic inspecting - don't trust everyone else with your largest investment!
Thanks boombiker - it's good advice. And although I agree that homeowners need to be responsible researched, educated and pushy/inquisitive, it's frustrating because our home inspector was supposed to be one of the most experienced and thorough in the county and we trusted him to do a good job.
With 10-20 years of experience looking at houses as much as 3-4 times per day (as well as academic training in home inspection), these are things that should have been caught. In hindsight, of course we regret not finding these things ourselves and putting our trust in him, but more and more, I'm realizing that he just missed things he could have (and should have seen). This wasn't a matter of opening up walls. There were some clear red flags that he just ignored and visible damage that he missed and I'm very sorry to say his approval gave us a false sense of confidence. I know that he schedules multiple inspections per day - maybe he just rushed the job or got complacent. I also think that the homeowners "patched" things that were problematic underneath, either to purposefully hide certain issues or avoid having to deal with them.
And thanks C21 -- we do have pictures and could file a claim with his insurance; I'm just really unfamiliar with what we would need to do with the bank -- or the best path to resolution -- and I'm trying to follow the correct process here.
Last edited by Scott99999; 06-15-2009 at 06:08 AM..
1) Rotted window sills (between the panes) in at least 4-5 windows, which led to the discovery of:
2) Termites & carpenter ants and
3) Rotted sheathing
The inspector filled out a termite certification and also reassured us that the windows were satisfactory, albeit old.
Since we have asbestos siding, I can't just call a contractor to have them remove the siding to replace windows and sheathing (the inspector assured it was OK if we just didn't mess with it). I removed some myself so that the windows could be replaced and the sheathing and studs could be redone.
What's the right course of action? Who would I even speak to at the bank? Going to small claims court seems like little consolation, since the cost is going to go far beyond just a few replacement windows.
I also suspect that the owners knew of these problems, but covered them up (for example - new nails were used in the affected areas of the siding, but closer inspection revealed them to be the wrong nails).
I have other views.. You bought a used house, had said house "inspected". Inspections only show so much.. for you and the rest of the world.
In our old house we replaced all but maybe 4 windows.
We disclosed that; we disclosed everything to the best of our knowledge.
Had a buyer replaced the rest of the windows; does anything fall on me? I would hope not as I wouldn't know if something like termites were in there since we never found anything in the other windows.
I had a new neighbor before we listed ours.
They also had it inspected. The master was in the middle of being redone, the buyer knew that. The window wasn't replaced. Buyer ends up knocking out a new bedroom wall (closet/bath), then decides to replace windows in that room. Pretty much the same thing it was rotted.
Add to this they will have to replace siding eventually once they are done with windows.
The hot water heater went on them.
Think the furnace went on them.
Every time they turned around in the 1st year, it was a new can of worms.
You're buying a used house.
I don't care how much inspecting you do; it's not going to show everything.
You should have put money aside for unforeseen repairs.
Unless you can prove the sellers knew about it, I seriously doubt going to court is going to be worth it.
I am not following the train of thought about contacting the bank. I assume the bank is the lender. What do you think they will do for you?
Attorneys who will work on a contingency basis, often are looking for 30-35% of the eventual financial reward. If they do not win the case, they will typically bill you for court costs and all out of pocket expenses.
As an aside, real estate agency is one of the few remaining professions that operates on a contingency basis whereby the broker/agent only get paid at closing. It's a high risk/reasonable reward scenario compared to most contingency business.
There is no reason you cannot file a E/O claim with the inspector's insurance company and/or take this to small claims court, should you so desire. It's this mom's opinion that you will do better by sticking to the facts instead of the pain/ suffering - lost vacation time route.
Did you have to accept the $500 for no seller disclosure? I mean couldn't you have insisted as part of the contract that they give you a disclosure form? I can't see how you would have any recourse against the previous home owners since you accepted $500 in lieu of any disclosure from them. That $500 almost seems to act as liquidated damages or something, but that would depend on what your contract says your recourse against the homeowners is.
How long has it been since you purchased the home? A month, a year? When is the time of purchase vs.time of discovery of the problems?
Buyers - stop trusting everyone else to determine the condition of your future home purchase. Some inspector are better then others and all inspectors miss things. Termite inspectors can not see inside walls - there are some dogs that can sniff out termites.
I have bought hundreds of houses and always rely on my own inspections. If a home owner appears to carefully maintain their house it is probably in good condition - sellers disclosures are a good read but don't trust them completely. Inspections are usefull but still do your own due dilligence. Poke around - if you see rotted wood in one place it probably is in many locations. Abestos siding is a problem to remove - try to side over it.
In termite regions of the country - have a termite inspection and remember if the house is well maintained with ongoing termite prevention you are much safer then a poorly maintained house.
Learn a little about houses and do your own inspecting - if the house is generally poorly maintained - walk away or factor the cost of repairs into the offer price! Trying to get compensation from sellers and inspectors after the purchase is usually a waste of time - this is your house so hire an inspector - but also do your own basic inspecting - don't trust everyone else with your largest investment!
It is a shame that there are so many inspectors who don't do a thorough job, though that is what they're paid/certified/licensed for and some are great. I used one who spent hours going through every square inch of a house and would just 'state the facts' and he's who I recommended (and he was recommended to me by people with very positive experiences). A termite report was filled out by the inspector and companies in these regions do have methods where they can determine, at minimum, if they 'exist' plus termites do leave clues they're present - maybe not all of the damage that's covered up, but that they're there. That at least gives the buyer a clue they have a termite issue - then they can deal with it during negotiations or simply walk away. But at least they are aware of all material defects in a house prior to closing.
Boomerbiker, you're obviously very, very experienced in buying/selling but not everyone is - which is why they rely on the 'professionals' to tell them about all material defects; so they 'know' what they're buying. The inspector told him one thing, then it turned out to be a whole different kettle of fish. The inspector OP trusted was supposed to be the 'best' in the area, so it would be a natural assumption for a buyer (who doesn't have your experience in buying/selling) to trust the experienced and supposedly 'best' inspector in the area to conduct a proper inspection. Of course now OP realizes that one cannot always trust the 'professional' and 'most experienced in the area', but a little too late for someone who doesn't have the experience someone like you has.
Though what's bothering me and, yes, it was an old house so, yes, there are things that will need to be replaced/mitigated like any older home, is that there were things that OP says were evident enough that the inspector should have seen them. Of course OP also saying he's in a state where sellers can pay money and not have to sign a disclosure form so . . . JMO, it does sound like the inspector had a full schedule, rushed the job and now the OP is paying the price. Guess, especially in some states, the statement 'buyer beware' is really right on target.
We bought the house 1.5 months ago (We closed at the end of April). We didn't move in right away because we needed to have the place painted, but as we're getting in to make improvements, we're finding these issues.
Hindsight is 20/20 and I do have regrets, but I think the frustrating point here is that I really feel that the inspector told us not to worry about certain things (like the old windows) and then didn't really check them. For example, he marked that there were "no water stains" and now we're finding the sills were rotted. That wasn't a hidden accident that happened overnight. He provided a termite certification and there were termite mud tubes on the side of the building.
That's a pretty dramatic difference between the "satisfactory" rating and approval he gave us and what we're finding. We know the house wasn't new. We did budget for repairs - but honestly, we've watched as almost everything has far exceeded estimates we were given and we're feeling pretty misinformed.
It was walkaway time when you learned you would not get a full disclosure from the seller. Where was your agent on this scenario or did you buy FSBO - i.e., without an agent. If you had an agent, was the wood rot not naked to the eye or if you pushed a pen into it...did it go right into the damp, rotten wood. I think you have a case to get some renumeration from the home inspector's errors and omissions insurance, but I believe you must have received a good deal....just more work than you bargained for. Buyers need to accept responsibility for their purchases. As more and more short sales and foreclosures "seem" like a good deal....buyers need to do their own due diligence. Hire an electrical inspector, hire a plumbing contractor, how about a mason, a structural engineer. Home inspectors are not "be all and end all" opinions. Did you look at the report and see all the "cya" items on his report....I call them the "I don'ts"....I don't inspect wells, I don't inspect septics, I don't see inside the walls, I don't inspect pools, I don't inspect...yada, yada. Your situation is very unfortunate...you needed something and didn't get it. Your bank does not give a rip...they just want to make sure you make your payments on time.
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