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Old 09-29-2009, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Weaverville
765 posts, read 2,559,163 times
Reputation: 404

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Oddly enough I just bought a house last weekend and one thing my realtor warned us berfoe we went out to view houses was not to say anything inside the house that might be recorded and tip our hand in any negotiations. Sounded paranoid to me but he was serious so it must happen some places.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Olympia
1,024 posts, read 4,123,559 times
Reputation: 846
Whether it is illegal or not, the best protocol is to assume that a seller might record and behave accordingly.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:27 AM
 
1 posts, read 5,015 times
Reputation: 10
A lot of homeowners are installing hidden cameras to record the showing of their houses when they are listed for sale because of problems with theft. Most showings require the homeowner to be absent and are often schedule "on the fly" when the home owner doesn't have time to run home and lock up valuables, especially perscription drugs.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:47 AM
 
355 posts, read 1,474,827 times
Reputation: 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownVentura View Post
Silverfall seems right on the money (as always). When searching, here is a quote that kept coming up
So, my new question is, how do the TV shows do it? I know they ask the people before they air it but it sounds like it is illegal to tape it to begin with. Unless it is all a scam and everybody is in on the "first" open house.
I assume you're talking about shows like Designed to Sell or Curb Appeal or whatever the hell it's called on HGTV where they spruce up the house on the cheap and have before and after open houses, recording the prospective buyers as they walk through the property.

On those shows and virtually all others, the show producers have each and every individual involved sign a waiver that gives the producers the express right to film (video and audio) the individuals. If they don't sign, they don't get to go through the open house (or the producers just don't use their footage). More than likely, the producers also tell these individuals to speak up when they see something they like or dislike. The participants might get comped some trivial pittance like $80 or $100 each cash for their time, or they might just get off on being on TV. In any case, each of them signed a waiver before participating.

In California, it is illegal to record a person's communication without their consent. Videotaping is allowed (hence nanny cams and video surveillance) but audio is NOT unless you get approval/consent from all parties involved.

Cal. Penal Code section 632 prohibits amplifying or recording, by any means, a confidential communication without the consent of both parties. This section prescribes a fine of up to $2,500 and jail time in the state prison or county jail, or both the fine and jail. Thus, a violation could be charged as either a felony or a misdemeanor.
Communications need not be through spoken words. Thus, even if the two adults engaged in a sex act without speaking, they would be deemed to be communicating with one anther. Recording such an event without consent of both parties would expose the recorder to punishment under section 632.

Of course, it varies by states. In some states I believe it is perfectly legal to record individuals' communication without their consent.
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Old 10-07-2009, 04:23 PM
 
1,831 posts, read 4,420,284 times
Reputation: 1261
Is the recording really going to give you that much more feedback? Is it worth it? Don't you really know that your carpet is crappy? LOL!

Regarding the agent using an open house to sell his or her other listings, my guess is that is not so uncommon. But the way it was done as the PP described was sleazy. I once had an agent who told me she did this with the house I was selling at the time. Given her attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't criticize my home in order to lure a buyer to one of her "nicer" listings that was on a tight deadline for sale. But I have to admit, she is the only agent that I heard do such a thing in such a way. She ended up losing both of our listings (I had to withdraw, the other went with another agent who got it sold pretty quickly). Ah, Karma.
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:57 PM
 
10 posts, read 22,702 times
Reputation: 11
I'm the tenant of a property being sold by a real estate agent of our landlord. We haven't been impressed with the agent at all and we decided to put webcams up in a few rooms of the house - mostly rooms with easily stolen valuables. It's been a battle trying to get them to comply with the terms of the lease agreement regarding showings and they've all but threatened to sue us for obstruction of the sale of the property since we turned down two last-minute showings within the first week of the house being on the market (by the way, we weren't told it was officially on the market). In monitoring the open house today, we were surprised to hear the agent provide private information about us to potential buyers regarding our financial and family situation which is nobody's business and I'm wondering if it's a HIPAA violation on the part of the real estate company (basically stating that we were moving because my wife is pregnant and we can't afford to live here anymore) which is fine for me to state here as there is no personal information (i.e. name, address, phone number, email, pictures...etc etc) attached to this post. Her revealing our private health information to people who know where we live and can walk through our home and see pictures of us...etc etc. Anyway - the most shocking part was that our landlord showed up to the open house. We had no warning that she would be there or that she was even in town as she lives in another state. We were never informed that the landlord was in town - not even after speaking in person with the Realtor before the open house and not even when speaking with the landlord on the phone minutes after the open house. The only way we knew was via webcam surveillance.

To say the least, it's been both good and bad to have the monitors - some things you just don't want to hear because it's insulting. Like the agent saying "Oh...they're kind of messy" (which we aren't) but it's unnerving to hear the agent talking about "oh they're going to have to pay for that to be repaired" when there isn't anything in need of repair that wasn't already in bad shape at the time we moved in. Also to hear the agent discuss with the landlord apartment brochures that we have lying on a table under a grocery bag - she's been snooping around through our belongings.

To say the least, it's been informative, but at the same time, there's not a whole lot we can do but document what they say. Otherwise "the cover is blown" and you'll never know what kind of things they'll plan away from the house.

Oh yeah, and we got a note on our door, shortly after moving in, from the local police department stating that there is a warrant out for the arrest of [landlord's name].

I hate this situation.
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Old 04-17-2011, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,498 posts, read 40,206,742 times
Reputation: 17369
Medical professionals are held to HIPAA standards not real estate agents. The landlord is their client and not you as the tenant so they don't have any legal obligations with regard to confidentiality to you.

They are required to follow landlord tenant laws unless you have an agreement with your landlord to waive those rights.

Also, I strongly encourage you to look at your local state laws. While you can video tape people, you can't audiotape them without either one, or both parties consenting. Oregon is a one party state so if YOU were part of the conversation and taping it, that's legal here. You can't audiotape other people's conversations, illegal in my state. Check your state laws. I find it ironic that your concern is for the invasion of your privacy, yet here you are invading the privacy of others.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:16 PM
 
Location: MID ATLANTIC
8,643 posts, read 22,799,829 times
Reputation: 10461
Quote:
Originally Posted by NopeROb View Post
I'm the tenant of a property being sold by a real estate agent of our landlord. We haven't been impressed with the agent at all and we decided to put webcams up in a few rooms of the house - mostly rooms with easily stolen valuables. It's been a battle trying to get them to comply with the terms of the lease agreement regarding showings and they've all but threatened to sue us for obstruction of the sale of the property since we turned down two last-minute showings within the first week of the house being on the market (by the way, we weren't told it was officially on the market). In monitoring the open house today, we were surprised to hear the agent provide private information about us to potential buyers regarding our financial and family situation which is nobody's business and I'm wondering if it's a HIPAA violation on the part of the real estate company (basically stating that we were moving because my wife is pregnant and we can't afford to live here anymore) which is fine for me to state here as there is no personal information (i.e. name, address, phone number, email, pictures...etc etc) attached to this post. Her revealing our private health information to people who know where we live and can walk through our home and see pictures of us...etc etc. Anyway - the most shocking part was that our landlord showed up to the open house. We had no warning that she would be there or that she was even in town as she lives in another state. We were never informed that the landlord was in town - not even after speaking in person with the Realtor before the open house and not even when speaking with the landlord on the phone minutes after the open house. The only way we knew was via webcam surveillance.

To say the least, it's been both good and bad to have the monitors - some things you just don't want to hear because it's insulting. Like the agent saying "Oh...they're kind of messy" (which we aren't) but it's unnerving to hear the agent talking about "oh they're going to have to pay for that to be repaired" when there isn't anything in need of repair that wasn't already in bad shape at the time we moved in. Also to hear the agent discuss with the landlord apartment brochures that we have lying on a table under a grocery bag - she's been snooping around through our belongings.

To say the least, it's been informative, but at the same time, there's not a whole lot we can do but document what they say. Otherwise "the cover is blown" and you'll never know what kind of things they'll plan away from the house.

Oh yeah, and we got a note on our door, shortly after moving in, from the local police department stating that there is a warrant out for the arrest of [landlord's name].

I hate this situation.
The landlord didn't give you notice that she was coming to the open house of the property she owns? Excuse me? I'm betting your lease gives her access at any time to check on her property. I understand you're under a lot of stress, but you really need to get a grip on the rolls here.

Hold them to the 24 hour notice to show. Take down the name (and ask for license number) of everyone that calls for access. Before you grant or deny access. "Hi, yes, this is so and so. I've been charged with keeping a log on who is requesting access. May I please have your name and license number? Thank you, now when did you wish to see the home? No, tonight is not possible, there should be a notation in the MLS that we are entitled to 24 hour notice, how is tomorrow evening?"

You're entitled to the terms of your lease and notice is common when selling. You aren't breaking it by any chance, are you? That's a game-changer, especially if she isn't holding you to the balance of the lease. Sorry to be a doubting Thomas, but I would say we don't get the full story on the majority of posts here that involve conflict.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:38 AM
 
10 posts, read 22,702 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
Medical professionals are held to HIPAA standards not real estate agents. The landlord is their client and not you as the tenant so they don't have any legal obligations with regard to confidentiality to you.

They are required to follow landlord tenant laws unless you have an agreement with your landlord to waive those rights.

Also, I strongly encourage you to look at your local state laws. While you can video tape people, you can't audiotape them without either one, or both parties consenting. Oregon is a one party state so if YOU were part of the conversation and taping it, that's legal here. You can't audiotape other people's conversations, illegal in my state. Check your state laws. I find it ironic that your concern is for the invasion of your privacy, yet here you are invading the privacy of others.
Thanks for the response. That makes sense about the HIPAA laws. Either way it's still tacky and unprofessional.

As far as the privacy thing goes, the cameras aren't hidden and they aren't even recording. They're webcams on my computers that are set up as a way that I can monitor what's happening in my home while strangers go through it. People should have no reason to do or say anything that requires privacy while they tour MY home. Yes, the landlord owns it, but I have legal possession of it during our lease term. To be honest, the cameras are more to make sure nobody tries to get away with swiping anything and also to make sure that the agent isn't trying to pull a fast one. Yeah I'm probably being paranoid, but how can I not be when there's suddenly a notice on my door from the police issuing a warrant for the arrest of my landlord??
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:48 AM
 
10 posts, read 22,702 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartMoney View Post
The landlord didn't give you notice that she was coming to the open house of the property she owns? Excuse me? I'm betting your lease gives her access at any time to check on her property. I understand you're under a lot of stress, but you really need to get a grip on the rolls here.

Hold them to the 24 hour notice to show. Take down the name (and ask for license number) of everyone that calls for access. Before you grant or deny access. "Hi, yes, this is so and so. I've been charged with keeping a log on who is requesting access. May I please have your name and license number? Thank you, now when did you wish to see the home? No, tonight is not possible, there should be a notation in the MLS that we are entitled to 24 hour notice, how is tomorrow evening?"

You're entitled to the terms of your lease and notice is common when selling. You aren't breaking it by any chance, are you? That's a game-changer, especially if she isn't holding you to the balance of the lease. Sorry to be a doubting Thomas, but I would say we don't get the full story on the majority of posts here that involve conflict.
You're excused. Our lease states that we have legal possession of the property during our lease term as long as we're following the terms of the lease contract...which we are by the way. It also states that the landlord does not have right to access unless 24-hours notice is provided stating the date, time, and reason for the visit, or if in emergency the landlord can enter without notice as long as date, time, reason, and people who entered is provided. It's not even the fact that she showed up for the open house so much as it is that she hid it from us - even after we called her and provided ample opportunity for her to tell us she was there. As a landlord myself, I can't imagine the lack of respect it would take to do this to my tenants especially when they've done nothing but pay their rent on time, report problems and offer to pay for them even when not at fault, and just plain be cooperative (which is also what we've done with our landlord). Just because I own the property my tenants are paying to lease doesn't mean I can bully them or just barge in whenever I want.

Also, we're willing to leave the property for open houses when we have no legal obligation to do so. We're paying to rent the property and have the right to stay there 24-hours a day whether or not they're showing it. I think the landlord and agent have been taking this for granted. Also, we never even asked to terminate the lease before the term was up and my wife is due the week before the lease is up. We even made it a point to say that we're still planning on living there for the remainder of the lease. The landlord was the one who asked if we'd be willing to break it and we said we would as long as we were given time to find another place to live. I don't feel like living on the streets with a wife that is 6-9 months pregnant, but if it means not looking like a bad tenant then I guess that's more important to some people.

Either way, at this point things have cooled down quite a bit. The agent is still tacky and unprofessional...completely unable to communicate and makes rash decisions based on assumptions, but at this point we've just been ignoring anything she says or requests she makes that aren't related to a scheduled showing. The more we've gone out of our way to try and be helpful, the more it's backfired and the agent takes offense to it as if we're trying to insult her directly. She wouldn't have to make the assumption if I were really insulting her (i.e. "tacky" is an insult "unprofessional" is an observation). Saying "hey, we'd like to help give you some buyer perspective on the property by sharing a few minor things we noticed when looking around the house before we signed the lease..." is not an insult. She blew up and demanded to see this list of damages we should've reported to herself and the landlord. They aren't damages...it's nit-picky crap that we made a list of as a "spruce-it-up" list for after we bought the place (which we were planning on doing before the pregnancy - and just to remove your doubts about that, we thought we couldn't have kids, so it was a surprise/miracle to us).

Anyway, we're just sick of trying. So FYI, if you're a landlord trying to sell a property while tenants live in it, get an agent who knows how to communicate with people and won't try to act like they're the landlord. Let me put it this way...after my experiences with this agent (just from the tenant experience), if I were to find my dream house within my price range, and then find out she was the agent on the listing, I'd consider living in a crap-filled box before buying the dream house through her. She's only caused us to be completely apathetic to the whole situation. I couldn't care less if she sells the place or not at this point. If they want to show it and it doesn't fit my schedule, well they can show it with me there...I'm not leaving. As far as moving out early, not my problem - I'm just planning on living there until our lease is up and if they sell it before that, we can cross that bridge when we get there. It's just sad that we genuinely wanted to help and went out of our way to do so, and the landlord/agent crapped all over that offer, chewed it up, and spit it back out in our faces on multiple occasions. Lesson learned, their loss.

Speaking of showings, we left for the weekly open house yesterday and the agent never even showed up. A phone call would've been nice. Unprofessional.

Last edited by NopeROb; 05-02-2011 at 11:22 AM..
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