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Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA & El Pescadero, BCS MX.
6,957 posts, read 22,311,234 times
Reputation: 6471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall
This is crazy and seems ripe for failure to disclose lawsuits. I don't think it is realistic for any home owner to remember every repair they made to their house over 30 years...
Shoot, I can't remember things from a month ago...in my "old" age.
LOL welcome to my world. Many of my clients have lived in the home for a good long time and like you (and definitely me) can't remember things from last week. I've received phone calls at home at night from clients that say something along the lines of "I just remembered something that we didn't include on the TDS"
The purchase agreement is 8 pages long and the disclosures can run to 30+ pages depending on the type of transaction.
I wander even if tehy could remmeber why anyone would want to read that thick a document. Seesm in that amout of time the leak would ahve caused quite a bit of dange. Likely issue may have been solved wihtout any big repair like chailkig that the window made might have been trying to make a killing on.One year and no other problem seem funy too.
I may or may not be successful at proving my case. I hear that. However I am all about doing the right thing and until I hit a brick or unfeasible wall, I'll keep going. I appreciate all of the warning. We are still working thru damages, insurance or payment,etc. It'll be interesting to see when we open the wall to understand the extent of the damage and how long ranging it is. Until then this is all truly speculation. We we know at this point is that a professional has told us and is willing to sign an affidevit that he was hired by the sellers to look at a water issue around a window, determined it wasn't the window rather the framing around the window. And we know that the Sellers are denying ever hiring him or having any kind of problem with the window.
For everyone's reference, I actually did a little more homework and went back to the paperwork. Under the section "Water Related and Mold Issues", the Seller Property Questionnaire asks specifically "water intrusion into any part of the physical structure of the property"
Additionally I read something by Elizabeth Weintraub a 30 year CA based REA who writes articles for About.com "http://homebuying.about.com/od/homedisclosures/qt/Req2Disclose.htm"]http://homebuying.about.com/od/homedisclosures/qt/Req2Disclose.htm
Some key things she said:
Material Facts Material Facts are commonly referred to as anything that would affect the buyer's decision to purchase or the price and terms the buyer offers. In other words, if you have knowledge about a defect, it should be disclosed."
"Do You Need to Disclose Every Home Repair?
If I were personally disclosing the condition of my own home to a buyer, I would not use the term "repair," because it could be deemed to imply that the defect was permanently corrected. But if I had called a plumber to fix a leak under the sink, I would disclose:
The pipes once leaked.
I paid ABC Plumbers $175 to stop the leak. The pipes have not leaked since.
Are the pipes good as new? I don't know. Probably not. I'm not going to guarantee it, however. "
"What About Rumors?
Generally speaking, unless you will violate a state or local law by disclosing, if you have knowledge of a defect or material fact, then disclose it. If a neighbor repeated a rumor, and you have not verified nor disproved the rumor, you might want to consider telling the buyer about the rumor. Follow the Golden Rule. If you would like to know, your buyer probably does as well. Typically, buyers aren't upset by receipt of negative information. They get upset and call a lawyer when they feel they have been duped, deceived or lied to."
LOL welcome to my world. Many of my clients have lived in the home for a good long time and like you (and definitely me) can't remember things from last week. I've received phone calls at home at night from clients that say something along the lines of "I just remembered something that we didn't include on the TDS"
The purchase agreement is 8 pages long and the disclosures can run to 30+ pages depending on the type of transaction.
I always pay my E&O premium on time.
I'm thanking my lucky stars I'm in Indiana. I've got enough things (and people) to drive me bonkers than have to deal with that kind of hornet's nest.
I'm pretty darn happy in my fly over state ... thankyouverymuch.
You must realize there the HUGE difference between the position of a "planning for anything seller" and where you are...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbia
... I actually did a little more homework and went back to the paperwork. Under the section "Water Related and Mold Issues", the Seller Property Questionnaire asks specifically "water intrusion into any part of the physical structure of the property"
Additionally I read something by Elizabeth Weintraub a 30 year CA based REA who writes articles for About.com "http://homebuying.about.com/od/homedisclosures/qt/Req2Disclose.htm"]http://homebuying.about.com/od/homedisclosures/qt/Req2Disclose.htm
Some key things she said:
Material Facts Material Facts are commonly referred to as anything that would affect the buyer's decision to purchase or the price and terms the buyer offers. In other words, if you have knowledge about a defect, it should be disclosed."
"Do You Need to Disclose Every Home Repair?
If I were personally disclosing the condition of my own home to a buyer, I would not use the term "repair," because it could be deemed to imply that the defect was permanently corrected. But if I had called a plumber to fix a leak under the sink, I would disclose:
The pipes once leaked.
I paid ABC Plumbers $175 to stop the leak. The pipes have not leaked since.
Are the pipes good as new? I don't know. Probably not. I'm not going to guarantee it, however. "
"What About Rumors?
Generally speaking, unless you will violate a state or local law by disclosing, if you have knowledge of a defect or material fact, then disclose it. If a neighbor repeated a rumor, and you have not verified nor disproved the rumor, you might want to consider telling the buyer about the rumor. Follow the Golden Rule. If you would like to know, your buyer probably does as well. Typically, buyers aren't upset by receipt of negative information. They get upset and call a lawyer when they feel they have been duped, deceived or lied to."
The position represented above is that of a LISTING AGENT advising sellers that "honesty is the best policy". I tend to agree with that sentiment, however my experience is tempered by the fact that "buyers want perfection" and anything that is short of that will come out of the PRICE. If sellers are aware of that at the time that they make repairs they might be wise to document that extent to which the repairs have made things "better than new" but as even the agent you quoted says "that cannot be guaranteed". Strangely even WITH a home warranty these sorts of "previously fixed" issues are very hard to get paid.
Having seen DOZENS AND DOZENS of houses sold with problems far worse than the leak you've described I know that there are few attorneys that would advise a BUYER to pursue a remedy in the courts for the kind of problem that you have. The few attorneys that would recommend pursuing legal action are typically those that do not have their clients best interests in mind.
Good Luck!
Last edited by chet everett; 10-16-2009 at 08:57 AM..
Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA & El Pescadero, BCS MX.
6,957 posts, read 22,311,234 times
Reputation: 6471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbia
I may or may not be successful at proving my case. I hear that. However I am all about doing the right thing and until I hit a brick or unfeasible wall, I'll keep going. I appreciate all of the warning. We are still working thru damages, insurance or payment,etc. It'll be interesting to see when we open the wall to understand the extent of the damage and how long ranging it is. Until then this is all truly speculation. We we know at this point is that a professional has told us and is willing to sign an affidevit that he was hired by the sellers to look at a water issue around a window, determined it wasn't the window rather the framing around the window. And we know that the Sellers are denying ever hiring him or having any kind of problem with the window.
For everyone's reference, I actually did a little more homework and went back to the paperwork. Under the section "Water Related and Mold Issues", the Seller Property Questionnaire asks specifically "water intrusion into any part of the physical structure of the property"
Additionally I read something by Elizabeth Weintraub a 30 year CA based REA who writes articles for About.com "http://homebuying.about.com/od/homedisclosures/qt/Req2Disclose.htm"]http://homebuying.about.com/od/homedisclosures/qt/Req2Disclose.htm
Some key things she said:
Material Facts Material Facts are commonly referred to as anything that would affect the buyer's decision to purchase or the price and terms the buyer offers. In other words, if you have knowledge about a defect, it should be disclosed."
"Do You Need to Disclose Every Home Repair?
If I were personally disclosing the condition of my own home to a buyer, I would not use the term "repair," because it could be deemed to imply that the defect was permanently corrected. But if I had called a plumber to fix a leak under the sink, I would disclose:
The pipes once leaked.
I paid ABC Plumbers $175 to stop the leak. The pipes have not leaked since.
Are the pipes good as new? I don't know. Probably not. I'm not going to guarantee it, however. "
"What About Rumors?
Generally speaking, unless you will violate a state or local law by disclosing, if you have knowledge of a defect or material fact, then disclose it. If a neighbor repeated a rumor, and you have not verified nor disproved the rumor, you might want to consider telling the buyer about the rumor. Follow the Golden Rule. If you would like to know, your buyer probably does as well. Typically, buyers aren't upset by receipt of negative information. They get upset and call a lawyer when they feel they have been duped, deceived or lied to."
Excellent homework and a much better explanation of what we in the profession are faced with on a daily basis.
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You must realize there the HUGE difference between the position of a "planning for anything seller" and where you are...
