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Notice the common agreement is that a lack of confidence means that men will be failures with women.
Isn't that a bit judgmental by women about men? Imagine if men were as unforgiving about women about characterisitics of their personalities.
Your problem is you're more concerned with being judged than on what people are actually telling you. If women were telling me that my lack of confidence was turning off women, instead of dwelling on that and criticizing them for judging me, I'd look at whether there was any truth to it. Men and women judge each other on their personalities all the time. You act like that's a bad thing. But don't you judge women as well for their personalities? If a woman were shallow and only interested in men for money, then of course you'd judge her.
Urban Sasquatch, since you continue refusing to believe me, will you believe other people? Just from the confidence thread, you can find:
- Real life examples of confident men who don't attract women
- Commonly known cases of not confident men who attract women
- Examples of how wrong we are sometimes telling which people are "confident" and which not.
I could look for more, but I think you get the point. Now, answering to your post: I don't really know what I am lacking. If I knew I would already be working on it. Obviously I'm lacking something since I won't attract women. Or at least not enough: we all know that part of the problem is competing with other men. Any woman I have ever met who I found somewhat good looking had some guys over her. So it might not be I'm not attractive, just that they had options to other guys more attractive and I am discarded.
I can tell you however, some of the things I did improve on myself over the last 2 years:
- Improved confidence and behavior
- Caring less about women and dating
- Gained more and better friends
- Went out more often
- Was more outgoing and sociable
- Lost weight
- Improved my posture
- Learned salsa and other latin dances
- Dressed better
- Changed my look to one that better fits me (I have been told that)
- Got a stable job and personal projects for the future
- Bought my own house
Does that seem enough? I have to say I run out of ideas actually. So as I told you I don't know what is missing, and I don't know if I will ever attract women, but I know that at least I won't ever regret not trying. That's more than what most men in my situation can say.
You win -- you're an exemplary man and women still avoid you like the plague for no reason discernible by mortals.
Yet for all that, you've still failed to directly answer my questions at the end OTHER than to say you're such a swell fellow who still has no luck with women.
My question (since you missed it): Is BEING NICE the problem? You seem to think it is. I'm not the only one gathering this possibly fallacious notion (note, giving you the benefit of the doubt here) from the things thus-far stated in this thread AND given the topic of the thread itself.
Your problem is you're more concerned with being judged than on what people are actually telling you. If women were telling me that my lack of confidence was turning off women, instead of dwelling on that and criticizing them for judging me, I'd look at whether there was any truth to it. Men and women judge each other on their personalities all the time. You act like that's a bad thing. But don't you judge women as well for their personalities? If a woman were shallow and only interested in men for money, then of course you'd judge her.
You act like materialism can be equated with shyness (which is the opposite of confidence).
You have shy women who wouldn't date shy men becuase they aren't confident.
You win -- you're an exemplary man and women still avoid you like the plague for no reason at all.
Yet for all that, you've still failed to directly answer my questions at the end OTHER than to say you're such a swell fellow who still has no luck with women.
My question (since you missed it): Is BEING NICE the problem? You seem to think it is.
Ooh oooh. Can I answer. I can diagnose this guy's problem in 5 seconds.
Ooh oooh. Can I answer. I can diagnose this guy's problem in 5 seconds.
I do believe you should, Siz. He doesn't know, and it's become abundantly clear my attempts to reason are horribly, horribly errant and I'm addressing all the wrong stuff.
I think I'd like no other opinion better at this point; hell, I was about ready to ask you to accompany me to California until I remembered that I'm firmly spoken for.
You win -- you're an exemplary man and women still avoid you like the plague for no reason at all.
It's not that they avoid me... many think I'm a fun guy to have around and all that. I've even had some women flirt with me... but in the end it never goes anywhere. In most cases they either get interested in some other guy who stands out for some reason. Other women, when I tried to take things further (either more obvious flirting or asking them out) they quickly backed off. Not sure why, maybe they were just using me to raise their ego.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch
My question (since you missed it): Is BEING NICE the problem? You seem to think it is.
No, no... I don't remember saying that. Maybe we got confused by the thread itself. But I don't think some niceness (in healthy levels) will generally be bad. As to my case honestly I don't know what the problem is. I wish I did.
It's not that they avoid me... many think I'm a fun guy to have around and all that. I've even had some women flirt with me... but in the end it never goes anywhere. In most cases they either get interested in some other guy who stands out for some reason. Other women, when I tried to take things further (either more obvious flirting or asking them out) they quickly backed off. Not sure why, maybe they were just using me to raise their ego.
No, no... I don't remember saying that. Maybe we got confused by the thread itself. But I don't think some niceness (in healthy levels) will generally be bad. As to my case honestly I don't know what the problem is. I wish I did.
Those two bolded statements.
Read them. They're your words. Read them a few times.
Then go back and read all the swell stuff about your own levels of confidence, which are associated with material and/or physically tangible things rather than with YOU.
Think about what all that means in how you conduct yourself. Not how you think you conduct yourself, but how you actually might, if you stepped outside yourself and took a look from a second-person perspective. We ALL think we're one way and it often requires an outside view to set us straight, just the way our voices sound different on a recording.
I've done all I can here; you'll pay attention or you won't. Either way it's your problem.
You act like materialism can be equated with shyness (which is the opposite of confidence).
You have shy women who wouldn't date shy men becuase they aren't confident.
how many poor men wouldn't date poor women?
I used materialism as an example, but I could've used some other personality trait. The bottom line is that it's something that's turning off other people. You can either get mad at women for being turned off by it or you can recognize why it's turning them off and decide whether to work on it. If you come across as having a lack of confidence, that begs the question as to why. Women will look at you and wonder why does this guy not seem to like himself. He's not short (5'10" is not short). He's a lawyer so he's obviously got a good job. I've heard other people on here who've seen your picture say you're a decent looking guy. So when people see you lacking confidence, they'll infer there must be something wrong with you, something that's not immediately obvious.
As for the second part of your post, I assume you're asking why there are double standards? That comes down to how we're all biologically wired to think. Men are looking for who can produce the healthiest offspring, which is why they tend to favor youth and fitness. Sure, our brains can override a lot of that conditioning, but that's where we're starting from. Likewise, women are wired to look for a man who can be a good provider for her children. So a man who doesn't project confidence is a red flag. It doesn't matter if she's shy herself. She'll look at him and think "this guy doesn't seem to like himself so how can I be sure he'll be a strong father to my kids?" A poor man might date a poor woman because his brain is wired to look for women who can give him healthy children, not necessarily be the provider to those kids. No matter how far we may have come intellectually, in a lot of ways, we're still operating by caveman rules.
Ooh oooh. Can I answer. I can diagnose this guy's problem in 5 seconds.
It's been more than 5 secs. So what's your clinical diagnosis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch
We ALL think we're one way and it often requires an outside view to set us straight, just the way our voices sound different on a recording.
That is so true. Honest feedback from others, as painful and ego-bruising as it can be, is the only way to really know how we come across to others.
I assume this guy has not come across many honest women who would really tell him the way he comes across [which may be the reason why they get turned off]
I assume this guy has not come across many honest women who would really tell him the way he comes across [which may be the reason why they get turned off]
It's also perfectly possible for a person to be confident, have a lot of things going for him, and still not be attractive to the women he's meeting. What if he's only surrounding himself with women who aren't attracted to guys like him? Quite often, people's problem is they're trying to appeal to people they're not just well matched to. Imagine being a confident, good-looking intelligent liberal who's surrounded by nothing but conservatives. Well then it probably won't matter that you're confident and good-looking. Those women, if they know you're a liberal and if they're only interested in conservative men, will still not want to date you. What a lot of men who express frustration at not being able to attract women are guilty of is quite simply pursuing the wrong women, or rather women who are wrong for them.
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