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Dating coaches usually put forward these elaborate methods of being smooth, which never can work all of the time.
What people need to realise is that human behaviour/conduct is far too complex to be simplified by some tired cliches. The skills in dating needed are to be confident and be oneself.
I know it was a movie but wasn't Hitch in essence a dating coach?
Okay, one for you. I don't condemn him. But I thought he did what he did to draw her away from the competition. Right? He was not insulting her to bond with her he was trying to get her to follow him. I love this movie and have seen it many, many times. Yes, it ismanipulation. However, in that club like meat market environment I can see that "games" like this are more appropriate. In a regular day to day setting like a college class I don't see that move going over well. Most people are there to learn and will have their shield up to throw off "meat market" tactics.
What? Of course she was insulted! That's why she called him an *******. People typically don't call other people *******s unless they're insulted. Two for me!!!
That particular manipulation may not work in a classroom setting, but others will. I don't see what your problem is with manipulation anyway. Don't women manipulate men everytime they wear high heels, push up bras, and make up?
Sweat pants, crust in eyes, undone hair = Man not horny.
Stiletto pumps, tight jeans, hair done = Man horny.
Manipulation!
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Originally Posted by lyra33
Get your facts straight mister! Oh yes they did go awry because he was helping guys get their dream girls!!!!! Things blew up because Eva thought he was trying to help a total A-hole (who was a jerk I might add ) to score her friend. SO...Eva set Hitch up and exposed his business to the world. Which was when things went awry for him. When she exposed him all the men he helped were exposed as well. He lost his business, apartment and possibility with Eva. lyra 1 Bajan 0
And Eva thought wrong. It's not like it was bad karma for helping all of those socially maladroit men find love. Your conclusion is supported by a false premise.
There's no strategy involved. It's not like I go around thinking "Okay, first I'm going to deliver a super-thermo blast neg, then I'm going to reframe, then I'm going to hit her with cocky and funny."
I like your description better here than previous posts. Before you did say some things like....forget one thing that is important so she thinks you are not thinking about her and she will have to work harder to get you. That is a 180 flip from trying to make a genuine connection with a girl.
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It's not like that. I would describe it as "social grace." Bill Clinton, for example, could talk to anybody...the elderly, black people, rednecks, elites, whatever. He had a gift for connecting with people. He was a socially graceful man. And that's attractive to women. The example I provided was just one of many ways to connect with a girl in that situation. The approach would change depending on the circumstances.
Bill Clinton can lie and make it look like he's preaching a sermon. That's slippery, slick and not attractive to me. Maybe some interns like it, but not me. He does definitely have a gift but doe he really care? He's a politician who wants all those votes. "That's" why he is connecting with people. It may seem like social grace but "true" intent is what is important to me. I look for that and I tend to distrust smooth takin' social grace sporting guys.
What? Of course she was insulted! That's why she called him an *******. People typically don't call other people *******s unless they're insulted. Two for me!!!
Noooo. Didn't she smile when he told her "why" he insulted her? So the insult was void since after. So, still only 1. Haha!
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That particular manipulation may not work in a classroom setting, but others will. I don't see what your problem is with manipulation anyway. Don't women manipulate men everytime they wear high heels, push up bras, and make up?
What a bunch of bull. So looking nice = manipulation? Whatever. So unless women look homeless they are manipulating and that justifies your manipulations. Right, I get it.
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Sweat pants, crust in eyes, undone hair = Man not horny.
If she's hot she's hot. Guys are guys get real!
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Stiletto pumps, tight jeans, hair done = Man horny.
So, are you a designer, or hmmm.
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Manipulation!
Maybe, but not always.
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And Eva thought wrong. It's not like it was bad karma for helping all of those socially maladroit men find love. Your conclusion is supported by a false premise.
True she made assumptions. HOWEVER, look at Hitch. In the end his goofiness, genuine self is WHAT won her over. So lyra 1 Bajun 1
I like your description better here than previous posts. Before you did say some things like....forget one thing that is important so she thinks you are not thinking about her and she will have to work harder to get you. That is a 180 flip from trying to make a genuine connection with a girl.
I still stand by that. You can make a genuine connection that way. What's the difference between that and putting a whoopi cushion on someone's seat? It's meant to be funny, even though someone may suffer a very fleeting and ephemeral degree of humiliation.
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Originally Posted by lyra33
What a bunch of bull. So looking nice = manipulation? Whatever. So unless women look homeless they are manipulating and that justifies your manipulations. Right, I get it.
LOL! Where in the world do you hang out, the Las Vegas Strip?! You compared a show girl to a mom kind of look. How about a picture of the same show girl waking up with her hair messy, sweats on, but still beautiful.
LOL! Where in the world do you hang out, the Las Vegas Strip?! You compared a show girl to a mom kind of look. How about a picture of the same show girl waking up with her hair messy, sweats on, but still beautiful.
When Bajan and Nutz refer to "women" they're actually referring only to barflies and party girls.
I still stand by that. You can make a genuine connection that way.
Here's where I just cannot make the connection, so maybe you can explain it differently so I get it. Semantics aside, I agree that the negging or whatever is the same thing as flirtacious mocking or self-deprecation. Those can be charming things. I believe that a man can learn how to be more charming--there used to be charm school for girls and maybe there still is.
But isn't it about more than just catching a woman? Life, I mean. Don't you want to keep a woman? I readily admit I've fallen for lines and tricks, and I had one boyfriend who cheated on me and hurt my feelings, the prick. Most women have. And most of us hate those guys. Do you want to be that guy? Really? Because I don't get how someone can be that guy AND a genuinely good man I want to love and respect and look at with a smile on my face. And if you don't want that, I don't get that either.
Here's where I just cannot make the connection, so maybe you can explain it differently so I get it. Semantics aside, I agree that the negging or whatever is the same thing as flirtacious mocking or self-deprecation. Those can be charming things. I believe that a man can learn how to be more charming--there used to be charm school for girls and maybe there still is.
But isn't it about more than just catching a woman? Life, I mean. Don't you want to keep a woman? I readily admit I've fallen for lines and tricks, and I had one boyfriend who cheated on me and hurt my feelings, the prick. Most women have. And most of us hate those guys. Do you want to be that guy? Really? Because I don't get how someone can be that guy AND a genuinely good man I want to love and respect and look at with a smile on my face. And if you don't want that, I don't get that either.
So maybe you can explain it to me.
Simple.
Some women are boring. And they like their men boring. They would be perfectly fine having Ferris Bueller's teacher as a spouse: "Buelllller. Buellller. Buellller."
Other women like excitement. They want to be teased and challenged. And when I say "challenged," I mean that they relish the thrill of competing against other women for a man. Just because you may not want to do that does not negate the fact that some women do.
What's insulting to me is not the notion that PUAs and jerks manipulate women, but rather the notion that women are these dumb, docile creatures that get acted upon and manipulated rather than intelligent, conscious, human beings who choose to pursue men that excite them. Wasn't that the point of women's suffrage? To prove that women, like men, can make rational decisions and can therefore be accountable for their decisions, just like men.
Sometimes a woman wants a jerk. And she doesn't have to have self-esteem issues to want a jerk. If that's what makes her heart flutter, then so be it. Why can't a woman, consciously and knowingly, take on the challenge of turning a cold and indifferent man into a loving and attentive partner?
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Oh yes they did go awry because he was helping guys get their dream girls!!!!! Things blew up because Eva thought he was trying to help a total A-hole (who was a jerk I might add 
) to score her friend. SO...Eva set Hitch up and exposed his business to the world. Which was when things went awry for him. When she exposed him all the men he helped were exposed as well. He lost his business, apartment and possibility with Eva. lyra 1 Bajan 0 
