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You know, before this assclown came along, there was another person who wrote "the cure for alcoholism" her name was Susan Powter. Remember her? "Stop the insanity!" She wrote a real arrogant book about how you didn't need AA! Ohhh AA was cute and we helped some, but eating right and PERSONAL EMPOWERMENT. She sold a gabillion copies...and then she imfamously did an almost Mel Gibsonian bender!
This is exactly what I was posting about^^^ when a non alcoholic reads a book and becomes an "expert"
TO ME THIS IS LIKE YOU SAYING I KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE BLACK BECAUSE I DROVE THROUGH A GHETTO.
Opti -
The book was written by a doctor who specializes in treating alcoholism. He has his own rehabilitation center up in Washington and many other rehabs have been formed on his model. The book is based on numerous studies that have been done, and his own experience in the field. Just because something is well researched and well written does not make it "arrogant", not everything has to be written from down in the trenches.
I may be a non-alcoholic but I am not inexperienced. I work with youth who have addiction problems, and I know people close to me who struggle with the disease. If you want to educate yourself - read more. If not, then good luck.
Just thought I would mention that I went and read Dr. Milams position paper regarding Biogenic vs Psychogenic basis of Alcoholism at his Treatment centers webpage. This was suggested by Allabouteve.
Got to hand it to Dr, Milam for being a skilled and effective writer. He cleverly weaves much that is truthful and supported by studies into alcoholism with subtle attacks at the System (present day knowledge). It is a classic con person stance that you can not trust what the authorities tell you, trust me instead (buy my book come to my clinic not ever stated but is inherent in the argument). Very subtle strawman attacks and back handed support of AA, not because of that it works, but that it moves people closer to the truth that he has promulgated. Mostly it is an attack on using psychology as a treatment for alcoholism.
After reading his paper I find myself reluctant to join his new cult of Biogenic treatment plan. Good call optiflex.
Matt,
Alcoholism has already been proven to be genetically based - why would you be against a treatment plan that addresses it as a genetic disease given that it has already been proven to be true!
If you really think its psychological how can you explain the discrepancy between drinking rates for different ethnicities. The average alcoholism rate is under 10% but it is close to 80% for Native Americans, and also very high for people of Irish decent. How can that be explained from a psychological perspective?
Eh, I think OP made it very clear that no matter how much people advice her against this guy, no matter how many red flags will be pointed out, regardless of the fact that she is still very young and has plenty of her own issues to deal with before helping someone else, she is not planning on leaving. She will stay with him until she hits rock bottom and until he sucks all life out of her.
Sorry if I'm not being optimistic. I grew up in former Soviet Union where alcoholism was raging and just didn't see a lot of happy endings, doesn't matter if it's psychological/physiological or blah blah blah.
Eh, I think OP made it very clear that no matter how much people advice her against this guy, no matter how many red flags will be pointed out, regardless of the fact that she is still very young and has plenty of her own issues to deal with before helping someone else, she is not planning on leaving. She will stay with him until she hits rock bottom and until he sucks all life out of her.
Sorry if I'm not being optimistic. I grew up in former Soviet Union where alcoholism was raging and just didn't see a lot of happy endings, doesn't matter if it's psychological/physiological or blah blah blah.
That's her right. It is her life after all.
I hope in the future more people will become educated about alcoholism. Hopefully, more people will be understanding.
Eh, I think OP made it very clear that no matter how much people advice her against this guy, no matter how many red flags will be pointed out, regardless of the fact that she is still very young and has plenty of her own issues to deal with before helping someone else, she is not planning on leaving. She will stay with him until she hits rock bottom and until he sucks all life out of her.
Sorry if I'm not being optimistic. I grew up in former Soviet Union where alcoholism was raging and just didn't see a lot of happy endings, doesn't matter if it's psychological/physiological or blah blah blah.
I hope in the future more people will become educated about alcoholism. Hopefully, more people will be understanding.
Hey, it makes no difference to me whatsoever.
Seeing my neighbor crawling on the ground because of his inability to walk and cursing in the drunken rage at his 3 young children and tearful wife is all the education that I need.
Seeing my neighbor crawling on the ground because of his inability to walk and cursing in the drunken rage at his 3 young children and tearful wife is all the education that I need.
There's nothing I can tell you to change your mind.
I get to know the other side of addiction. I work with addicts when they're sober, and I try to do my best to give them information to help them stay sober. But I know that through the process of addiction they will hurt many close to them.
But to me, there is a difference, a big one. The only reason I'm not addicted to alcohol is because I got blessed with good genetics. I can drink socially, and not become addicted. I am lucky.
Eh, I think OP made it very clear that no matter how much people advice her against this guy, no matter how many red flags will be pointed out, regardless of the fact that she is still very young and has plenty of her own issues to deal with before helping someone else, she is not planning on leaving. She will stay with him until she hits rock bottom and until he sucks all life out of her.
Sorry if I'm not being optimistic. I grew up in former Soviet Union where alcoholism was raging and just didn't see a lot of happy endings, doesn't matter if it's psychological/physiological or blah blah blah.
I agree that she will likely not leave until she hits a certain point. Those of us who have been through the hell of loving an alcoholic know that they are all the same person with a different face, but she may still think that her man is somehow different from the rest.
To those of us who have been on the receiving end of alcoholism, no, it doesn't really matter if it's physiological at its base or not. I do believe it's genetic--it seems to run strongly in families. Regardless, we've been damaged by another human being, and just saying "oh gosh darnit, it's just a silly ol' disease, they can't help it" doesn't do anything to make you forget the things they did to you or said to you. Of course, their disease allows THEM to forget what they do to those who loved them, and so they have no shame, no regret about any of it. Ever heard an alcoholic attempt to do their "amends" step? It's about as deep as a puddle. Yes, there are a few, a very few, who manage to climb out of their self-centered hole and rise to a level of humanity, but it is the exception rather than the rule. I give those few all the credit in the world, and they prove it can be done.
If folks want to study them or care for them, have a party. Some of us have had enough of it to last a lifetime.
Alcoholism has already been proven to be genetically based - why would you be against a treatment plan that addresses it as a genetic disease given that it has already been proven to be true!
If you really think its psychological how can you explain the discrepancy between drinking rates for different ethnicities. The average alcoholism rate is under 10% but it is close to 80% for Native Americans, and also very high for people of Irish decent. How can that be explained from a psychological perspective?
I will not say that alcoholism can not have a genetic predisposition. Your assertion that all alcoholism exist from this is without present day proof. It is a very complicated disorder with both genetic and psychological components. If you exclude one for the other you are missing the whole picture.
Take for instance your claim about Native Americans. Why is it not closer to 100%? Do you know if particular Tribes have a higher level or lower level? How about Mongolians (Amerindians are thought to have descended from them after crossing the Land bridge during the ice age.)? Perhaps there are other reasons for the rate of alcoholism being high. Suicide rates in the Native American population is higher than other populations. Does this mean there is a genetic pre-disposition to suicide?
I am sorry but your statement that alcoholism is only genetically driven is where I must disagree. As for Dr. Milam, I have already gave you my view about his stance.
I will not say that alcoholism can not have a genetic predisposition. Your assertion that all alcoholism exist from this is without present day proof. It is a very complicated disorder with both genetic and psychological components. If you exclude one for the other you are missing the whole picture.
Take for instance your claim about Native Americans. Why is it not closer to 100%? Do you know if particular Tribes have a higher level or lower level? How about Mongolians (Amerindians are thought to have descended from them after crossing the Land bridge during the ice age.)? Perhaps there are other reasons for the rate of alcoholism being high. Suicide rates in the Native American population is higher than other populations. Does this mean there is a genetic pre-disposition to suicide?
I am sorry but your statement that alcoholism is only genetically driven is where I must disagree. As for Dr. Milam, I have already gave you my view about his stance.
The trend in alcoholism rates, is that it is lowest in ethnicities in which alcoholism was first introduced. So for example, alcoholism rates are very low among people of Jewish decent and Italian decent because they were introduced to alcohol thousands of years ago. The theory is that people in their culture which did not have the proper genetics to process alcohol without becoming addicted died out and did not have very many offspring. So over thousands of years - their genes were not passed on and the alcoholism rate was lowered through "natural selection".
Ireland, was introduced to alcohol much later than Italy or the Middle East, so they have a much higher alcoholism rate because their population has not had the time to adjust. Over time, their population will naturally adjust and the rate will become lower.
That is why Native Americans, which were the last ethnic race to be introduced to alcohol, have such a high alcoholism rate. It is not 100%, because even within races, genetics differ. Native Americans are not all clones of each other and many of them are mixed with European blood as well. Their suicide rate, I imagine, is probably linked to their alcoholism rate. Inuits have a very high alcoholism rate, and if you look at the jails in Alaska it is filled with Inuits and most of the crimes committed were done under the influence.
I don't think I'm missing the whole picture. I understand people have psychological issues that lead to addiction. I can understand why someone who is under severe psychological stress would turn to drugs. However the difference with alcohol is that the person becomes addicted through no fault of their own. Alcohol to a genetically predisposed person is like Heroin - but they don't know this until the disease has taken hold. That is why I counsel children before they become addicted so they know they are at risk. Prevention is the key.
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