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If you're a guy and you ask a woman out on a date, have some ideas of what to do on that date. Don't just leave it up to her. After all, that's her free time that she's being asked to spend with you. And you can't even put in the effort to think of how that time should be spent? It shows a lack of consideration on your part.
But of all the reasons I've heard for why women want decisive men, one stood out. "I make decisions all day and, at the end of the day, I want someone else to make them." Can you imagine what would happen if a guy said this? Let's say a guy comes home from work, his wife asks what they should do for dinner, and he responds by saying "I made tough decisions all day and don't feel like making them when I get home." I doubt most women would put up with that.
So this idea that a man has to be decisive not simply because decisiveness by itself is attractive, but because it relieves the woman of the burden of having to make decisions, seems to have an air of entitlement. Whenever someone asked me out, I never thought to myself "she should be the decider cause I'm tired of deciding." Instead, I simply thought "this is nice having someone else plan things." In other words, I was humble about it. But I also felt free to offer ideas of my own. In fact, one of the best dates I ever had was where we deviated from what she had planned. At a certain point neither of us were really leading and it was the spontaneity and give-and-take of the evening that made it so memorable.
It does. Some people like to be lead more than others. Some people like to have more of a say than others. Suppose you meet someone who likes Thai food. Do you come up with a list of some good Thai restaurants and then ask which one she likes the most? Or do you simply pick the one you think is best, take her there, and hope she likes it too. I've met both kinds of women. Some who just want you to decide and others who like having some input. I've even met women who won't wait for you to suggest a place. The moment you ask if they want to go out for Thai food, they'll just tell you the exact place they want you to take them to.
Awhile back, I posted a thread where I set up a 1st time meeting with a lady I had met on-line. She cancelled at the last minute and apologized but requested that I set up another meeting and said she would be sure to make it the next time.
The whole point of the thread was why was I expected to set up another meeting when SHE had cancelled the 1st one. Would it have been too much for her to take some initiative and arrange the next meeting? I just threw up my hands in exasperation and didn't contact her again.
Yes it would be nice if women would take some initiative sometimes. I would think they would like that also but apparently some don't/won't.
It has nothing to do with men being wimps and not wanting to be confident and take charge. It has everything to do with men wanting women to share some of the responsibilities of dating and relationships.
I think whoever initiates the date should make the suggestions of what to do. If the other person has another idea that's great, but the person who asks you out should at least have an idea of what to do before hand and suggest it.
i think guys should do the asking out/planning initially for sure. and then later on everything's fair game.
and speaking of decisiveness, some men just move really really slowly in that oh-my-gosh why did it take you 3 months to ask out that girl kind of way. but then i also remember that my own patience is thin and could use some improvement
Awhile back, I posted a thread where I set up a 1st time meeting with a lady I had met on-line. She cancelled at the last minute and apologized but requested that I set up another meeting and said she would be sure to make it the next time.
The whole point of the thread was why was I expected to set up another meeting when SHE had cancelled the 1st one. Would it have been too much for her to take some initiative and arrange the next meeting? I just threw up my hands in exasperation and didn't contact her again.
Yes it would be nice if women would take some initiative sometimes. I would think they would like that also but apparently some don't/won't.
It has nothing to do with men being wimps and not wanting to be confident and take charge. It has everything to do with men wanting women to share some of the responsibilities of dating and relationships.
You do realize that it has been ingrained in many women that it is not lady like to be forward. It seems to me that even today men prefer women with a quiet, subservient demeanor. Look at the thread/post stating men don’t care about a woman’s career or education, they want a wife and mother for their children, there are tons of post warning men to stay away from American women because they are bossy, demanding, selfish and entitled.
Sometimes it seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. If we take the initiative ask a guy out, decide where the date will be we are an feminist biotch, if we expect the man to take the lead we are an entitled biotch.
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But of all the reasons I've heard for why women want decisive men, one stood out. "I make decisions all day and, at the end of the day, I want someone else to make them." Can you imagine what would happen if a guy said this? Let's say a guy comes home from work, his wife asks what they should do for dinner, and he responds by saying "I made tough decisions all day and don't feel like making them when I get home." I doubt most women would put up with that.
Not hardly the same. This is how it usually goes, wife asks what do you want for dinner, response is "I dont know" "I dont care". Now if Im the primary cook, I have something in mind to cook. Its nice if I ask for preferences, but Im not going to get my panties in a wad because my husband dosent take the initiative and be decisive about what I should cook for dinner. If you ask someone out Id think you would have something in mind. I think it is fine to ask for suggestions, but dont expect them to tell you where you are to treat them.
Women are very complicated animals. They want decisiveness then they don't want decisiveness.
At the early stage of your relationship, they tend to let their men to be more decisive but at later stage, they question just about every decision you make.
The trick to deal with this is to have the ability to hold your principles and have clear boundaries.
Women do not like guys who have no principles or who is indecisive on his principles. They may whine about your indecisiveness on which restaurant to go to but that's whining and they would not look down on you; however, they would if you don't stand by your principles and don't defend your boundaries.
Yes it would be nice if women would take some initiative sometimes. I would think they would like that also but apparently some don't/won't.
It has nothing to do with men being wimps and not wanting to be confident and take charge. It has everything to do with men wanting women to share some of the responsibilities of dating and relationships.
This thread is about decisiveness, not taking initiative. If you ask a woman out to dinner, you've taken the initiative. But if you leave it up to her to decide where to go, then you're not being decisive and that's a turnoff.
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Originally Posted by sydney1987
and speaking of decisiveness, some men just move really really slowly in that oh-my-gosh why did it take you 3 months to ask out that girl kind of way.
Keep in mind that many men move slow because they're trying to gauge your interest. If they can't read you or they're getting mixed signals, they may be reluctant to pursue you. I know a lot of women will label such a guy as being wimpy or lacking in confidence. But it just shows that some people don't know the difference between being wimpy and being careful.
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Originally Posted by 2mares
You do realize that it has been ingrained in many women that it is not lady like to be forward. It seems to me that even today men prefer women with a quiet, subservient demeanor. Look at the thread/post stating men don’t care about a woman’s career or education, they want a wife and mother for their children, there are tons of post warning men to stay away from American women because they are bossy, demanding, selfish and entitled.
Sometimes it seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. If we take the initiative ask a guy out, decide where the date will be we are an feminist biotch, if we expect the man to take the lead we are an entitled biotch.
And who do you think that did that ingraining? A society that's long been dominated by men. I seriously doubt it was women who came up with the idea that women shouldn't take initiative and go after the things they want. For the longest time, men told women they shouldn't be allowed to vote or work outside the home. So it's hardly a stretch to think that men defined what it means to be ladylike. It's just another form of control. Tell a woman she shouldn't pursue men, that she should sit back and wait for men to pursue her, and it accomplishes two things. One is that it objectifies women and makes them more like prizes to compete over than actual people who have free will. Two is that it precludes women from leaving men for better men.
As for men who are threatened by strong women who take the initiative and instead prefer one who's quiet and subservient, these men are just insecure. A real man shouldn't find his sense of masculinity threatened by a woman pursuing him. If you meet a man who does, then you should ask yourself why would you want to be with such a man in the first place. I know one woman who's very confident in herself and has no trouble pursuing men she's interested in. In fact, she sees it as a litmus test. If the man is turned off by her making the first move, then she knows he's a wimp and loses interest.
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Originally Posted by 2mares
Not hardly the same. This is how it usually goes, wife asks what do you want for dinner, response is "I dont know" "I dont care". Now if Im the primary cook, I have something in mind to cook. Its nice if I ask for preferences, but Im not going to get my panties in a wad because my husband dosent take the initiative and be decisive about what I should cook for dinner. If you ask someone out Id think you would have something in mind. I think it is fine to ask for suggestions, but dont expect them to tell you where you are to treat them.
Actually it is the same. In both cases, the person deferring to the other is doing so, in part, because they're too tired to make decisions themselves. So there's an element of laziness there. You may not mind if your husband doesn't care what you cook for dinner. But imagine if it were something else, like disciplining the kids for doing something wrong. He comes home and says "I'm tired. You deal with them." Most women I know would smack such a man for being too lazy to parent. I know my mom would've looked at my dad and said, "I've had a busy day too. So quit acting like you're the only who's had to make tough decisions, get off the couch, and go be a parent."
And who do you think that did that ingraining? A society that's long been dominated by men. I seriously doubt it was women who came up with the idea that women shouldn't take initiative and go after the things they want. For the longest time, men told women they shouldn't be allowed to vote or work outside the home. So it's hardly a stretch to think that men defined what it means to be ladylike. It's just another form of control. Tell a woman she shouldn't pursue men, that she should sit back and wait for men to pursue her, and it accomplishes two things. One is that it objectifies women and makes them more like prizes to compete over than actual people who have free will. Two is that it precludes women from leaving men for better men.
As for men who are threatened by strong women who take the initiative and instead prefer one who's quiet and subservient, these men are just insecure. A real man shouldn't find his sense of masculinity threatened by a woman pursuing him. If you meet a man who does, then you should ask yourself why would you want to be with such a man in the first place. I know one woman who's very confident in herself and has no trouble pursuing men she's interested in. In fact, she sees it as a litmus test. If the man is turned off by her making the first move, then she knows he's a wimp and loses interest.
I totally agree, but it dosent change the fact that much of society is still burdened with these attitudes on some level.
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Actually it is the same. In both cases, the person deferring to the other is doing so, in part, because they're too tired to make decisions themselves. So there's an element of laziness there. You may not mind if your husband doesn't care what you cook for dinner. But imagine if it were something else, like disciplining the kids for doing something wrong. He comes home and says "I'm tired. You deal with them." Most women I know would smack such a man for being too lazy to parent. I know my mom would've looked at my dad and said, "I've had a busy day too. So quit acting like you're the only who's had to make tough decisions, get off the couch, and go be a parent."
I dont think it is necissarily laziness, unless perhaps one always defers every decision to the other. Naturally there are times when one is tired and would prefer the other to make a decision or one dosent particuarlly care one way or the other. I dont see anything wrong with that.
In my relationships each has generally taken on certain responsibilities, be it cooking, paying bills, discipline, decorating, yard, etc. The "owner" of each is generally responsible for making the decisions concerning that responsibility, but sometimes it is ok to defer a decision for whatever reason. As for things such as entertainment, I would think whoever brought up the idea would have some sort of plan. I wouldnt say, I feel like getting out, lets do something then expect my SO to decide what to do. I might say lets go see a movie, do you have any suggestions, or lets go eat Italian unless you would prefer something else.
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So this idea that a man has to be decisive not simply because decisiveness by itself is attractive, but because it relieves the woman of the burden of having to make decisions, seems to have an air of entitlement.
So all that said, I think I know what you are refering to. My bf cant seem to make simple decisions. Here is the flip side, how do you preceive it. This is an example from today. I asked that my bf and son take up the toliet so I could re-tile the floor. I mentioned that it would probably need a new seal. My bf called today, there going to take up the toliet, should he go ahead and get new bolts because the old ones are in bad shape. Second call, "I think we should get a new seal too, what do you think".
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Second call, "I think we should get a new seal too, what do you think". 
