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The one that stood out in my mind and perhaps deserves a thread of its own is #10, Personalizing. A lot of people make everything about them. Their partner isn't affectionate enough? Oh it must mean he no longer finds me attractive. My wife keeps nagging me? I guess I'm just not good enough for her. Notice it all comes back to you. For all the talk about a relationship being about WE, some people can't seem to avoid looking at it from only their perspective.
From a woman's perspective, I will say that even to this day, women are taught from Day One to be the caregivers and made responsible for other people's happiness. Not that it's right, but that's still how many girls are brought up, and we see it on these threads all the time. A man cheats on a woman, so it must be her fault for one reason or another. She didn't have enough sex with him. She got fat. She did this. She did that. She is responsible for his happiness.
So it's not necessarily a mark of narcissism or self-absorption when women react like that. It's more a codependent self-flagellation fostered by a sexist upbringing.
Even I remind both myself and my SO that if something is bugging him and I'm the cause of it, he will have to be the one to tell me. If he's in a bad mood and doesn't say anything to me about me, then it's not about me. He's a grown man. He's got a mouth. He can speak up.
From a woman's perspective, I will say that even to this day, women are taught from Day One to be the caregivers and made responsible for other people's happiness. Not that it's right, but that's still how many girls are brought up, and we see it on these threads all the time. A man cheats on a woman, so it must be her fault for one reason or another. She didn't have enough sex with him. She got fat. She did this. She did that. She is responsible for his happiness.
So it's not necessarily a mark of narcissism or self-absorption when women react like that. It's more a codependent self-flagellation fostered by a sexist upbringing.
I agree. But wherever it comes from, the bottom line is that you're framing the issue in terms of yourself rather than the relationship as a whole. Somewhere out there is a woman who's worried that her husband will leave her if she grows old. So she's obsessively exercising, maybe getting Botox, all in an effort to keep her man happy. But when he does trade her in for the younger model, she beats herself up for it.
What is "personal?" What's "not personal?" When we live in close quarters with our mate everything that we do (or don't do) has an effect on our mate and others who live in our house too...If someone acts "differently" without explaining the change in his or her behavior it will cause others to "wonder." What's going on? Do the changes have something to do with me or not? It's best when everyone talks openly and takes personal accountability for any shifts or changes in their behavior. Don't you think? It's no fun to have to "guess." And "not talking" can create insecurities in the relationship...If I had a "bad day" at work I wouldn't feel entitled to come home and pout and sulk in silence without regard for my husband. I wouldn't want him to think that my "off mood" had something to do with him...I'd be upfront with him right off the bat and tell him that I had a rough day at work and need a little time to "get past" all of it. I wouldn't want to leave my husband "in the dark." And I certainly wouldn't want him to think that I was upset with him when this wasn't true.
...is the problem that most men encounter with women. For most of the 80% of men who women consider to be below average in looks, women are constantly looking for "signs" that he is no good in other ways. Everything he does and says is subject to this analysis. He is often perplexed, when he is suddenly dumped for some spurrious "reason" and he cannot even understand how she came to this conclusion.
In contrast, for the 10 percent of men who women are highly attracted to, they put a very positive spin on every apparent negative sign. Such men are often contemptious in their discuaaion of women with their buddies, relating how they can treat women like $hit and they bounce back for more.
When we live in close quarters with our mate everything that we do (or don't do) has an effect on our mate and others who live in our house too...If someone acts "differently" without explaining the change in his or her behavior it will cause others to "wonder." What's going on? Do the changes have something to do with me or not? It's best when everyone talks openly and takes personal accountability for any shifts or changes in their behavior. Don't you think? It's no fun to have to "guess." And "not talking" can create insecurities in the relationship...If I had a "bad day" at work I wouldn't feel entitled to come home and pout and sulk in silence without regard for my husband. I wouldn't want him to think that my "off mood" had something to do with him...I'd be upfront with him right off the bat and tell him that I had a rough day at work and need a little time to "get past" all of it. I wouldn't want to leave my husband "in the dark." And I certainly wouldn't want him to think that I was upset with him when this wasn't true.
Suppose I have a bad day at work, my allergies are acting up, and I just spent an hour in traffic. So I walk in the door and I'm in a really lousy mood. Intellectually, I may know that it's wrong to take it out on my partner or let her think she's the reason I'm upset. But most people, when they're feeling really strong emotions, can't think straight. So it probably won't occur to me until later that I should make sure my wife knows I'm not upset with her. I would hope she would think to ask me what's wrong rather than sit back and assume it's about her.
Now let's reverse it. Let's say my partner is the one who's in a bad mood. Naturally, I'm going to wonder why. What I won't do is wait for her to tell me. Instead I'll ask her. Too often, people are either too afraid or just too lazy to speak up. That has the potential to lead to misinterpretation. Also, if my first thought is to wonder whether she's upset with me, doesn't that seem a bit self-centered? Shouldn't my first thought be "maybe she had a bad day at work or maybe she's not feeling well." I think people need to realize that not everything that happens in a relationship is about them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyShouldIWorry
...is the problem that most men encounter with women. For most of the 80% of men who women consider to be below average in looks, women are constantly looking for "signs" that he is no good in other ways. Everything he does and says is subject to this analysis. He is often perplexed, when he is suddenly dumped for some spurrious "reason" and he cannot even understand how she came to this conclusion.
In contrast, for the 10 percent of men who women are highly attracted to, they put a very positive spin on every apparent negative sign. Such men are often contemptious in their discuaaion of women with their buddies, relating how they can treat women like $hit and they bounce back for more.
I'll ignore the tired 80%/20% statistic which has become a silly way for men to cope with rejection and absolve themselves of any responsibility. As for your overall point about mind reading, there is a lot of truth to it. However, it applies to both genders, not just women. Most men aren't exactly known for being communicative. A lot of that has to do with the way boys are raised in our culture. Talking about one's feelings isn't something men are generally encouraged to do. So that leads to the women having to guess what's bothering him. But as we've seen too often, any time you try to guess what someone else is feeling or thinking, you're more likely to get it wrong than right. For example, a man may stop showing affection for his wife. Maybe he's under a lot of stress at work, maybe he's worried about the family finances, or maybe he's upset that his coworker got the promotion he wanted. But instead of coming out and saying why he's not being affectionate, his wife is left to wonder. And as Avienne pointed out earlier, many girls are raised to believe that it's their responsibility to keep their men happy. So if he's not happy, they take it personally and infer that it's because of something they did. Notice how that misunderstanding could've been easily cleared up if both people actually talked to one another instead of trying to read each other's minds.
I feel that I need to "explain myself" so I am upfront and honest with people...I don't want to force someone to have to play "guessing games" about what's going on with me...I prefer to be around people who are upfront and honest about what's going on with them too...I know when I'm "not ok" or stressed or worried about something...I know that others may notice a difference in me so I like to "head things off at the pass" and explain "where I'm at" and "why." I don't want to force someone else to have to ask me "what's wrong" or to have to guess about the cause of my "off mood" but this is just me and how I prefer to operate. It's a courtesy I like to extend to others.
It's great that you think to extend that courtesy. But a lot of people when they're feeling intense emotions just don't think to do those things, which is why the other person can't just wait for them to explain themselves. If my partner comes home and is in a lousy mood, I'll give her space to cool off. But at the same time, I won't just wait for them to tell me what put them in that mood in the first place. I figure it's my job as their partner to ask what's wrong so that I can then see if there's anything I can do.
Denny...Thanks for your posts and insights. I probably look at things differently because my parents didn't let me pout and sulk. They expected me to show consideration for them. They carefully explained that my "pouty and silent moods" had a negative effect on them...That I was being a "downer" and not being "fair" to them...They wanted to "be there" for me and listen to my feelings but they pointed out that they couldn't "read my mind" and I had to talk out loud...When I did talk my parents were great...They offered me a lot of emotional support without making me feel stupid...Our talks brought us all closer. All of my parents' friends were "talkers." My parents avoided people who played "poor me" and "suffering martyrs." They didn't have any patience or interest in "pouters" and "sulkers" who kept their feelings and problems a "big secret" without any regard for the way their moods affected other people in their life....And it worked both ways. If I felt my parents weren't dealing with their feelings very well I said so. I called them on it. "What's good for the goose is good for the gander!" Right? We all kept each other on our "toes" when it came to processing our feelings and moods and "owning up to things" etc.
The problem is that when we're feeling strong emotions, we can't always think clearly. I could come home after a bad day at work and be in a really lousy mood. Intellectually, I know I should tell my partner why I'm upset, if for no other reason than to make sure they know I'm not upset with them. But at that precise moment, I'm so upset that I'm looking at the situation objectively. It might not even occur to me that my partner thinks I'm angry at them. It's only later after I've cooled off that it might finally hit me that I may have accidentally given my partner the impression that I was angry at her.
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grows old. So she's obsessively exercising, maybe getting Botox, all in an effort to keep her man happy. But when he does trade her in for the younger model, she beats herself up for it.
#3 Mind Reading....
