Nice guys only fail with the wrong type of women.. (cheat, kids)

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by WaltHowe2

(Lost my password, couldn't log in).

I dunno. I got a guy here, seems to be around 37, wanted to keep writing me and followed me around responding to everything I posted until I finally had to put him on ignore. And that guy, if you ask him, he thinks he knows more than a professional, maybe he is a professional?

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

Perhaps because the professional you speak of sends pictures of his feces to women.

I need a translation because I'm not following.

Originally Posted by Garfunkle524

A funny thing happened to me the other day. Every time I meet any of my girlfriend's friends or family, they always tell her I'm super polite and nice. She told me what they've all been saying and I told her nice guys finish last. She said they never called me a "nice guy."

Seems like the term "nice guy" has all kinds of negative connotations in the dating world. She and all her friends/family think I'm incredibly nice, but they don't seem to think I'm a "nice guy". She always describes me as a gentleman and never calls me a nice guy.

Lessons learned:
nice = good
nice guy = bad

Yea, "nice guy" has bad connotations. When I see it now I think nutter.

[DennyCrane]

Originally Posted by Freedom123

You just proved my point of why feedback is useful. Making your own interpretations doesn't really help someone in the end if it can be interpreted in all kinds of ways. If one received the same honest answers (like "too short") from multiple women, that takes the guesswork out of it, and he can save time and effort by seeking women who are 5 feet and under.

Also, the "too nice" line doesn't help other women, all it does is strengthen the "women like jerks" stereotype since that's the opposite of a nice guy, and fills the market with pick up artist types and fake bad boys. These men could have solved their real hindrances without losing their nice guy qualities. It's a waste of everyone's time who's actually serious about seeking a fulfilling relationship.

Feedback is only useful if it's accurate. Receiving the same feedback from several people makes it more likely that what they're telling you is the truth, but that isn't always the case. Imagine asking out several women in your office. They all turn you down and they all say it's because you work together. But what if the real reason is that you're black and none of them felt comfortable admitting that?

As for the "too nice" line not helping other women, it probably doesn't. But I don't think women get together for an annual meeting to discuss what excuses are safe to offer and what ones are going to make things worse. I blame men for taking that feedback and deciding that they have to shift so far in the other direction. Apparently, they haven't figured out there's a huge middle ground between too nice and jerk.

Originally Posted by Freedom123

I should have added that despite their weight, these women still go for athletic men, reject overweight men, and don't understand why they are being rejected or chosen primarily for short term/sexual relationships since both athletic and overweight men are approaching them. The problem falls with their ideal man (athletic) seeing them as ok for sex, but not wanting to be with them long term, yet not giving them the real reason.

So they reject overweight men but they too are overweight and yet they don't understand why they're being rejected? As for why they're being chosen for sex instead of something serious, this is no different than what non-overweight women have to deal with. Lots of men only want sex and lots of those men will pursue an overweight woman if they think she'll sleep with them. You can't expect men to reject long-term relationships with these women and then explain that they were only interested in sex. They assume the woman will figure it out on her own and most eventually do, even if they don't want to admit it.

Originally Posted by Freedom123

Not everyone is as insightful as you are in the relationship arena. How many posts do we see in this forum where people who don't catch obvious hints of what's wrong with their relationship, or don't catch on to obvious reasons why they were rejected?

Actually what I see is the opposite, which is people who read WAY too much meaning into the littlest things. For example, they go on a date with a woman and she turns them down for a second date. So they immediately conclude that she was turned off by their height when it could've been any number of things. And sometimes, there might be nothing wrong with you, but you just don't click with the person.

[DennyCrane]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

I need a translation because I'm not following.

Read the following two posts.

Post 64

Post 79

[WaltHowe]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

I need a translation because I'm not following.

That's ok. It's bad enough to have her following

[DennyCrane]

Originally Posted by WaltHowe

That's ok. It's bad enough to have her following

Isn't it sad? He now has to refer to me as "her" even though he knows I'm male. I guess that's how some people deal with those who disagree with them.

[Malkiel]

Originally Posted by WaltHowe

But unattractive isn't subjective if you look at society's standards. I'm pretty sure the guy you find unattractive is getting the same thing from most if not all women while I'm sure the guy who really gets you goo-goo and speechless is getting the same treatment from women on a daily basis.

Don't go out with him to spare HIS feelings but I'm saying there's diamonds in the "garbage" that every other woman threw away if you'd only stay around and get to know the rejected man's inner qualities.

It's for a better future for you too.

+1

I laugh at the girls who reject shorter, less attractive men in hopes of getting the 6"5 blonde football star. Of course, then women complain about the lack of "good men" and how all men are cheaters.

Guess what, unless you're the hottest or smartest girl in the school... I doubt the attractive football star will be interested in you enough to develope an exclusive relationship with you. Sure, he'll take you as a FWB but don't expect a relationship

I find it funny how women complain about the lack of men interested in relationships when all the women go after a select few men. Obviously, when a guy gets offers from 10 different women he'll have no incentive to stay exclusive.

Women don't seem to understand that more attractive men are more likely to cheat because they get more opportunities and they probably take women for granted.

[Freedom123]

Good afternoon Denny,

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

Feedback is only useful if it's accurate. Receiving the same feedback from several people makes it more likely that what they're telling you is the truth, but that isn't always the case. Imagine asking out several women in your office. They all turn you down and they all say it's because you work together. But what if the real reason is that you're black and none of them felt comfortable admitting that?

Denny, my main point these last few pages is about not lying when rejecting someone. You're making a counter point to something I already agree with. I could have written the above paragraph myself. Since we're on the same side, I'm not sure what the debate is here.

I already said I don't mind if someone didn't want to date me due to my race. No need to be dishonest about that. I'm not hypersensitive about racism and there are plenty of women in all races who love Black men anyway.

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

As for the "too nice" line not helping other women, it probably doesn't. But I don't think women get together for an annual meeting to discuss what excuses are safe to offer and what ones are going to make things worse. I blame men for taking that feedback and deciding that they have to shift so far in the other direction. Apparently, they haven't figured out there's a huge middle ground between too nice and jerk.

I also think it's the wrong approach to become a fake bad boy, I'm simply commenting on the end result. Once again we agree.

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

So they reject overweight men but they too are overweight and yet they don't understand why they're being rejected? As for why they're being chosen for sex instead of something serious, this is no different than what non-overweight women have to deal with. Lots of men only want sex and lots of those men will pursue an overweight woman if they think she'll sleep with them. You can't expect men to reject long-term relationships with these women and then explain that they were only interested in sex. They assume the woman will figure it out on her own and most eventually do, even if they don't want to admit it.

Yes, I see this rejection of overweight men by overweight women pretty often and they really don't seem to understand why. Some feel they have the ability to turn down fat guys and keep athletic men around long term. They believe this since men STILL approach them despite the weight, not realizing their options are an illusion because many of the athletic guys have ulterior, short term motives. At least that's what the end result seems to be.

There's a difference between smaller women and overweight women. Smaller women have a larger pool to choose from, have more men approaching them, and more suitors with long-term motives vs ulterior short-term motives, and hence have more bargaining power than larger women. Larger women's bargaining power in my experience is an illusion in comparison, outside of the small minority of men who truly want a relationship with a larger woman.

Actually I do wish men would be straight up with women if they only want short term relationships. But then again, I wish these men and their ulterior motives could be taken out of the dating pool with legalized prostitution, but that will never happen.

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

Actually what I see is the opposite, which is people who read WAY too much meaning into the littlest things. For example, they go on a date with a woman and she turns them down for a second date. So they immediately conclude that she was turned off by their height when it could've been any number of things. And sometimes, there might be nothing wrong with you, but you just don't click with the person.

If she was honest enough to just say "I just don't feel the chemistry" instead of feeding him the "too nice" line, there would be no need to read into anything or think it was his height, race, looks, etc.

I guess both men and women have growing up to do since there's a cycle of dishonesty out there.

[DennyCrane]

Originally Posted by Malkiel

Women don't seem to understand that more attractive men are more likely to cheat because they get more opportunities and they probably take women for granted.

If we follow this line of reasoning, then attractive women are more likely to cheat as well since they have so many men chasing after them. And if that's true, then it begs the question why nice guys are upset about being passed over for bad boys. Suppose that hot girl chose you instead of the bad boy. By your own logic, she's more likely to cheat on you since she has all these guys hitting on her constantly. So is that really a big victory for you, the nice guy? You now have a girl who has a high probability of cheating on you. Congratulations. This is what I'll never understand about some of these "nice" guys. They whine about how they always finish last because women supposedly only want bad boys. But do they stop to ask if these women are great catches? Nope.

[Malkiel]

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

If we follow this line of reasoning, then attractive women are more likely to cheat as well since they have so many men chasing after them. And if that's true, then it begs the question why nice guys are upset about being passed over for bad boys. Suppose that hot girl chose you instead of the bad boy. By your own logic, she's more likely to cheat on you since she has all these guys hitting on her constantly. So is that really a big victory for you, the nice guy? You now have a girl who has a high probability of cheating on you. Congratulations. This is what I'll never understand about some of these "nice" guys. They whine about how they always finish last because women supposedly only want bad boys. But do they stop to ask if these women are great catches? Nope.

Your argument is flawed in that I understand the risks involved when dealing with a hot girl. In fact, I'm more likely to pick a moderately attractive girl over a hot girl for relationships.

However, most women don't understand the risks involvled. They claim that they're not interested in looks. They claim that they want a man for a great relationship. Then why aren't they picking the perhaps less attractive but more stable man?

I find what a lot of them tend to do is they pick only the most attractive guys. Then they blindly hope that those guys are relatonship material. If they truly want a relationship then they should pick out the relationship material guys first and then go for looks.

[DennyCrane]

Originally Posted by Freedom123

I already said I don't mind if someone didn't want to date me due to my race. No need to be dishonest about that. I'm not hypersensitive about racism and there are plenty of women in all races who love Black men anyway.

Yes, YOU may not be hypersensitive about that. But the women you approach may not realize that. So they may err on the side of caution and tell you something else.

Originally Posted by Freedom123

Yes, I see this rejection of overweight men by overweight women pretty often and they really don't seem to understand why. Some feel they have the ability to turn down fat guys and keep athletic men around long term. They believe this since men STILL approach them despite the weight, not realizing their options are an illusion because many of the athletic guys have ulterior, short term motives. At least that's what the end result seems to be.

Do they not see the pattern? If men keep approaching them, but never want long-term relationships, how many men do they have to sleep with before they figure out they're being used?

Originally Posted by Freedom123

There's a difference between smaller women and overweight women. Smaller women have a larger pool to choose from, have more men approaching them, and more suitors with long-term motives vs ulterior short-term motives, and hence have more bargaining power than larger women. Larger women's bargaining power in my experience is an illusion in comparison, outside of the small minority of men who truly want a relationship with a larger woman.

Thinner women will probably attract more men than heavier women. But what also matters is whether the man is after something short-term or long-term. Usually, people who are looking for serious relationships are going to have higher standards. If it's just sex, the guy might not care that she's a little heavy or even smokes. He figures "well I'm not marrying her so what's the big deal if I sleep with her one night?" And while the thinner girl will still have an advantage in attracting men who just want sex, the men who don't get the really hot girls may decide to settle for the average looking one if that's what it takes to get sex.

Originally Posted by Freedom123

If she was honest enough to just say "I just don't feel the chemistry" instead of feeding him the "too nice" line, there would be no need to read into anything or think it was his height, race, looks, etc.

I'm not just referring to the people who throw out the "too nice" line. I'm talking in general. If you go on a date with someone, but don't really hit it off, then you probably shouldn't be surprised if there's no second date. The woman might say something along the lines of "I just don't see this going anywhere". Most will accept that and move on without dwelling on whether there was some other reason. But some guys are quick to assume that she rejecting them because of their height or something along those lines, even though they have no evidence of it. But they're so insecure about their height that they figure that had to be the reason they were rejected, that it couldn't possibly have just been a lack of chemistry.