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Your argument is flawed in that I understand the risks involved when dealing with a hot girl. In fact, I'm more likely to pick a moderately attractive girl over a hot girl for relationships.
However, most women don't understand the risks involvled. They claim that they're not interested in looks. They claim that they want a man for a great relationship. Then why aren't they picking the perhaps less attractive but more stable man?
I find what a lot of them tend to do is they pick only the most attractive guys. Then they blindly hope that those guys are relatonship material. If they truly want a relationship then they should pick out the relationship material guys first and then go for looks.
Do you have any female friends, sisters, cousins, aunts, a mom, grandma, etc?
If so, is what you're saying true of those women?
These are genuine questions. The reason that I ask is because I find it hard to believe that "most" of the women you know are as gullible as you are saying.
Your argument is flawed in that I understand the risks involved when dealing with a hot girl. In fact, I'm more likely to pick a moderately attractive girl over a hot girl for relationships.
Yes, YOU might willing to go for the moderately attractive girl, but you don't speak for ALL nice guys. There are plenty who will chase after only the hot girls because, in their minds, settling for someone who's only moderately attractive means admitting that they're inferior to the bad boys who seem to always get the hot girls.
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Originally Posted by Malkiel
However, most women don't understand the risks involvled. They claim that they're not interested in looks. They claim that they want a man for a great relationship. Then why aren't they picking the perhaps less attractive but more stable man?
Perhaps because a lot of these less attractive, but more stable men have plenty of their own issues that make them unattractive. Just look at the countless nice guy threads on this forum where the guy talks about how wonderful he is, how he'd make a great partner, how he's so reliable and trustworthy, etc. There's an air of entitlement there, as if he thinks his being nice makes him more deserving. And a lot of these nice guys are only nice when they think it'll work in their favor.
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Originally Posted by Malkiel
I find what a lot of them tend to do is they pick only the most attractive guys. Then they blindly hope that those guys are relatonship material. If they truly want a relationship then they should pick out the relationship material guys first and then go for looks.
People can't control what they're attracted to nor can they force themselves to be attracted to someone that, intellectually, they know would make a great partner. I've met plenty of women who, on paper, I knew would make terrific partners. But I felt no physical attraction. So what was I supposed to do? Date them anyway and hope that their looks would grow on me? Yes, women should learn to filter out the jerks before going after looks. And with age and experience, most women learn to do just that. A girl might go after the hot bad boy when she's 22. But at 35, she's probably learned that looks aren't everything.
Yes, YOU may not be hypersensitive about that. But the women you approach may not realize that. So they may err on the side of caution and tell you something else.
I agree, which is why I also said in that previous post that I won't pretend like my view is shared by other Blacks. I still believe people should speak their mind in a nice way, regardless if people get offended. This is wishful thinking and how I ask people in real life to deal with me, I'm not saying it's going to happen to society at large. Too many people are "sensitive".
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Originally Posted by DennyCrane
Do they not see the pattern? If men keep approaching them, but never want long-term relationships, how many men do they have to sleep with before they figure out they're being used?
Some do, most I've known don't. It's called self-delusion. It doesn't help if guys above their league tell overweight/less desirable women anything she wants to hear as a means to the bedroom. Some of them believe they were in actual relationships because it's not always a clear hit it and quit it. Some of these guys stick around for multiple sessions before "disappearing" or becoming "busy".
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Originally Posted by DennyCrane
Thinner women will probably attract more men than heavier women. But what also matters is whether the man is after something short-term or long-term. Usually, people who are looking for serious relationships are going to have higher standards. If it's just sex, the guy might not care that she's a little heavy or even smokes. He figures "well I'm not marrying her so what's the big deal if I sleep with her one night?" And while the thinner girl will still have an advantage in attracting men who just want sex, the men who don't get the really hot girls may decide to settle for the average looking one if that's what it takes to get sex.
I agree. The number of potential long-term suitors are still skewed in the thinner girl's favor over the thicker ones, because almost everyone prefers that type. Also, the "not as hot" women are turning down the men who would settle. He can desire to settle to his heart's content, but if an overweight or less desirable woman she feels she can do better (because she's had better), he's going to have a tough time until he learns how to improve and market himself to women who are more receptive to his type. (Or until he gets older and meets women who are lowering their standards due to kids, aging, etc). But that doesn't help the typical early 20s "nice guy" who we usually discuss here.
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Originally Posted by DennyCrane
I'm not just referring to the people who throw out the "too nice" line. I'm talking in general. If you go on a date with someone, but don't really hit it off, then you probably shouldn't be surprised if there's no second date. The woman might say something along the lines of "I just don't see this going anywhere". Most will accept that and move on without dwelling on whether there was some other reason. But some guys are quick to assume that she rejecting them because of their height or something along those lines, even though they have no evidence of it. But they're so insecure about their height that they figure that had to be the reason they were rejected, that it couldn't possibly have just been a lack of chemistry.
You have to consider where the insecurity comes from. Guys like you and I will just move on as you stated. Someone who gets rejected almost 100% of the time, and the "too nice" line accompanies it is not going to just shake it off. Of course he's going to wonder why and maybe come up with his own assumptions, insecurities and worst case, depression/low self esteem. He has little to no past successes to overcome his rejections, unlike the overweight women who have succeeded temporarily with guys who are their type.
Honestly, the best solution to "nice guy" rejection is to not go on serial dates with women he barely knows. It's best to simply get to know women on the phone or in casual social settings before setting up an official date. He should also use online dating so the friendship / interest line can't be mistaken, and women who are interested WILL reply.
Avoiding serial dating reduces the chance of rejection since "getting to know you" takes more of an effort than just agreeing to a date because you're "bored" or "giving someone a shot." The best part is he'll know if she's interested or just wants him as a buddy based on her demeanor in the conversation.
I laugh at the girls who reject shorter, less attractive men in hopes of getting the 6"5 blonde football star. Of course, then women complain about the lack of "good men" and how all men are cheaters.
Guess what, unless you're the hottest or smartest girl in the school... I doubt the attractive football star will be interested in you enough to develope an exclusive relationship with you. Sure, he'll take you as a FWB but don't expect a relationship
I find it funny how women complain about the lack of men interested in relationships when all the women go after a select few men. Obviously, when a guy gets offers from 10 different women he'll have no incentive to stay exclusive.
Women don't seem to understand that more attractive men are more likely to cheat because they get more opportunities and they probably take women for granted.
I laugh at the girls over 60( six oh!) who are still thinking this way and rejecting my father in favor of..................who?
Give em a pound of make-up and some light oil (hair dye) and they all think they're too good..............................
Some do, most I've known don't. It's called self-delusion. It doesn't help if guys above their league tell overweight/less desirable women anything she wants to hear as a means to the bedroom. Some of them believe they were in actual relationships because it's not always a clear hit it and quit it. Some of these guys stick around for multiple sessions before "disappearing" or becoming "busy".
Yes, but sooner or later, they're going to figure it out. They may not admit it to anyone else because most people don't want to admit that they were fooled.
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Originally Posted by Freedom123
Also, the "not as hot" women are turning down the men who would settle. He can desire to settle to his heart's content, but if an overweight or less desirable woman she feels she can do better (because she's had better), he's going to have a tough time until he learns how to improve and market himself to women who are more receptive to his type.
It depends on what the woman thinks of as better. Suppose I get a really hot woman to go out with me, but it turns out she's only using me for money. Now imagine this happens over and over. Finally I meet an average looking girl. I might tell myself I could do better than her because I've had better. But then an alarm will go off in my head saying "what you thought was better really wasn't because that person was just using you." By the same token, if an overweight woman was having really attractive guys pursue her but only using her for sex, she may not look back on them as being "better" than the average looking guy in front of her now. Of course, if that average looking guy just thinks this average looking woman is desperate, that won't help him either.
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Originally Posted by Freedom123
Honestly, the best solution to "nice guy" rejection is to not go on serial dates with women he barely knows. It's best to simply get to know women on the phone or in casual social settings before setting up an official date. He should also use online dating so the friendship / interest line can't be mistaken, and women who are interested WILL reply.
I agree that people who are being rejected most of the time need to be more selective about who they go out with. People are fond of saying that dating is a numbers game, that you have to date a lot of people in order to find someone you like. I've never really bought into that because I think there's the potential to be rejected so many times that you'll start to lose hope.
I guess that's how some people deal with having their words (or what they never said) being thrown in their faces like a biotch might do.
Nice try, but you did say those things and I provided links to the actual posts. If you can't handle people calling you out on the things you post, perhaps you should refrain from posting.
Yes, but sooner or later, they're going to figure it out. They may not admit it to anyone else because most people don't want to admit that they were fooled.
You definitely have a point, but the "reality check" typically occurs when it's too late or too difficult (30s to early 40s when the prospects dry up). People tend to be optimistic about their options beforehand if they've always had some level of suitors.
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Originally Posted by DennyCrane
It depends on what the woman thinks of as better. Suppose I get a really hot woman to go out with me, but it turns out she's only using me for money. Now imagine this happens over and over. Finally I meet an average looking girl. I might tell myself I could do better than her because I've had better. But then an alarm will go off in my head saying "what you thought was better really wasn't because that person was just using you." By the same token, if an overweight woman was having really attractive guys pursue her but only using her for sex, she may not look back on them as being "better" than the average looking guy in front of her now. Of course, if that average looking guy just thinks this average looking woman is desperate, that won't help him either.
You're blessed with perception and realistic expectations. This is not most people I've had relationship discussions with. I find that most people who've dated suitors hotter than them, typically over-inflate the league they're really in. This includes the less attractive or overweight women previously discussed. They feel their stock is higher since athletic guys have approached, dated, and had sex with them in the past. If many of those past situations didn't end with the guy saying "I prefer thinner women for serious relationships, and I only wanted casual sex with you" how would she know she's out of her league since higher stock guys approach her every day? Even if it ended badly, she can simply point fingers at his flaws instead of self-reflecting on why she's not being chosen for long-term relationships.
The lines are even more blurred since people with good and bad motives typically put their "false representative" forward in the beginning and things don't necessarily end on bad terms where a person can determine they were simply being used. Plenty of early stage relationships end because "it didn't work out" or the person gets "busy" or just "disappears". That will just help blame the other side instead of realizing they were dating out of their league.
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Originally Posted by DennyCrane
I agree that people who are being rejected most of the time need to be more selective about who they go out with. People are fond of saying that dating is a numbers game, that you have to date a lot of people in order to find someone you like. I've never really bought into that because I think there's the potential to be rejected so many times that you'll start to lose hope.
You definitely have a point, but the "reality check" typically occurs when it's too late or too difficult (30s to early 40s when the prospects dry up). People tend to be optimistic about their options beforehand if they've always had some level of suitors.
It's a harsh wake up call for some people, but it doesn't always happen in their 30s or 40s. Some people figure it out before they hit 30. But even if they don't realize it until after 30, it isn't necessarily too late to apply those lessons. Yes, finding good prospects in your 30s can be harder than finding them in your 20s. But again, it really depends on what you define as good. People's definition of good changes over time. Someone in their 20s may value looks a lot more than someone in their 30s or 40s. Maybe they had so many bad relationships with the hot girl/hot guy that they realize looks aren't everything.
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Originally Posted by Freedom123
I find that most people who've dated suitors hotter than them, typically over-inflate the league they're really in. This includes the less attractive or overweight women previously discussed. They feel their stock is higher since athletic guys have approached, dated, and had sex with them in the past. If many of those past situations didn't end with the guy saying "I prefer thinner women for serious relationships, and I only wanted casual sex with you" how would she know she's out of her league since higher stock guys approach her every day? Even if it ended badly, she can simply point fingers at his flaws instead of self-reflecting on why she's not being chosen for long-term relationships.
I don't think it's that they have an inflated view of themselves (although that's often the case). I think it's because they don't want to feel like they're inferior. Imagine being the less attractive woman who gets approached by really good looking guys, only none of them want to stick with you for the long-term and it finally dawns on you that these guys were only after sex. They may not come out and actually say it. But when you see the same thing happening over and over again, you're eventually going to figure it out. So now you realize that it might be better to go with some average looking guy who's actually interested in a serious relationship. But that's settling. And settling is seen as bad, something that people do when they're desperate. And you worry that if you do settle for some average looking guy, that's telling the world that you're not as good as the hot girl that the good looking guy ends up with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123
The lines are even more blurred since people with good and bad motives typically put their "false representative" forward in the beginning and things don't necessarily end on bad terms where a person can determine they were simply being used. Plenty of early stage relationships end because "it didn't work out" or the person gets "busy" or just "disappears". That will just help blame the other side instead of realizing they were dating out of their league.
Which is why you need to reflect on it more. If one person just disappears, you can dismiss it as being about them. But if everyone keeps doing it, then you need to stop and ask if it's you. This is where the nice guy fails. He goes after the hot girls who keep rejecting him in favor of the bad boy. But rather than ask himself what he's doing wrong (which includes pursuing the wrong women), he instead blames the women for not recognizing what a great guy he is. So even if these women never actually tell him that he's being too nice, eventually he's going to figure it out. People aren't that stupid. Some are just slow learners.
Last edited by DennyCrane; 05-12-2011 at 11:04 AM..
I think I'd rather have a woman tell me what it was about me that made her reject me. It might hurt, but at least it would help me know if it's 1) something I can change and 2) something I want to change. If it's something I can't change (height, face (to an extent)) then oh well. If it's something I don't want to change (religious preference, or lack thereof in my case), then oh well. If it's something I can change AND want to change? Well it'd be nice to know what it is in that case.
Sort of like going to the doctor for a physical, having him tell you "you're unhealthy" and then walk out the door without explaining what about you is unhealthy.
The reason why many people don't take this route is because many people can't handle it. There is no point in hurting another person's feelings. It is not polite and it is not anybody's responsibility to tell you what is wrong. As my very hot physics instructor told me, most people know what is wrong with themselves. No, I was not hitting on her, just trying to figure out why I got a B.
I don't think it's that they have an inflated view of themselves (although that's often the case). I think it's because they don't want to feel like they're inferior. Imagine being the less attractive woman who gets approached by really good looking guys, only none of them want to stick with you for the long-term and it finally dawns on you that these guys were only after sex. They may not come out and actually say it. But when you see the same thing happening over and over again, you're eventually going to figure it out. So now you realize that it might be better to go with some average looking guy who's actually interested in a serious relationship. But that's settling. And settling is seen as bad, something that people do when they're desperate. And you worry that if you do settle for some average looking guy, that's telling the world that you're not as good as the hot girl that the good looking guy ends up with.
I'm curious why it's settling when someone picks a mate with a superior personality as opposed to superior looks?
If I'm smarter, more successful, and more charming than the guys who merely look good then I'd be insulted if she thinks she's "settling" with me. If she values anything more than looks, then she'd realize that I'm a better catch. If she thinks she's settling then she's probably still superficial and I wouldn't want anything to do with her.
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