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Old 01-04-2012, 11:20 AM
 
6,548 posts, read 7,286,453 times
Reputation: 3836

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
But still, you put all the impetus on the women who liked to be asked out and not pay, and say nothing of the men who prefer to do the asking and paying. A woman who expects to be courted won't get anywhere without the man to court her.
There have been a couple of guys before around here who have expressed how they want a woman to not have a past, be traditional, etc. and, same thing, I have asked them if they consider important to not have a past when it comes to relationships or if they are willing to expect something from women but not be ready to offer the same. Or if they want a traditional woman if they are also willing to be traditional. I find it interesting how women can say they love traditions (men paying for their expenses, romancing them, wooing them, taking the initiative, etc.) but when it comes to women’s old traditions, all of a sudden, those are wrong, sexist, from the past, etc. A few women around here really mean it when they say they love traditions. Again, it is not wrong/right, people do as they please and make them happy in their relationship.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:29 AM
 
6,548 posts, read 7,286,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
Also, there is a difference between a first date and cohabitation in an established relationship.


You have said before you rarely ever pay for dating expenses so I guess it’s more than the first date for you, right?

Mod cut: Orphaned.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 01-04-2012 at 03:39 PM..
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:36 AM
 
Location: USA
31,077 posts, read 22,134,821 times
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The woman in the OPs case did not know a good thing when she had it "He paid for 95% of everything". She was either dumb or had something better lined up.

Now that I'm a little older and fairly well off I'm thinking of finding myself some sweet young thing that likes to be wined and dined and appreciates it. I should at least try it out.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:36 AM
 
6,548 posts, read 7,286,453 times
Reputation: 3836
Mod cut: Orphaned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
And yet you didn't ask the guy if he liked to follow the old traditions at home as well. Also - one of the women that you responded to said SHE preferred to pay but her SO didn't let her. You said that was the norm here - so you think it is the norm for women to prefer to pay?
Women preferring to pay? Naaaah. We see it in different threads how “wrong” it is for men to not cover a woman’s expenses, take the initiative, not be brave, and so on. Maybe it is the norm in other cultures but not American.

If there are men who feel emasculated for not covering a woman’s expenses and so on I wonder if there is something comparable where women feel less of a woman if they let their man do, is there?

Quote:
I never expected anyone to court me, pay me, take the initiative, etc. I've never had a guy lavish me with gifts or take me to fancy restaurants all the time. I've told you this sooooo many times
Yes, you don’t expect them but they beat you to the punch I suppose.

Quote:
And most of my girlfriends are the same way. Whenever I dated anyone - including my husband - things just kind of happened organically. It wasn't all this - we have to make sure everything is 50/50!
I have said it many times too when it comes to me and Asian girls. It just happens naturally without the need of “it’s my/your turn” and they don’t have to put me through probation periods, observation periods, tests, or the so called initial stages either to start being nice. I’ve shared different experiences from a date in a falafel stand to vacations around the world.

Quote:
In my relationships - we don't keep track of everything like a spreadsheet. Most of the time - by the time we were dating - we would both make the plans together - nobody had to ask anyone out. And honestly - in most of my relationships - we didn't even have a "first date" or anything - we just started spending time together and next thing you know - we are kissing and in love
Exactly. I don’t even remember having a girl ask me to be her boyfriend or vice versa. It just happens. We know our thing is exclusive, our expressions, our actions, and so on.

Quote:
If all you care about is who picks up the check - well, you have bigger things to worry about.
Yup. If a man cares about who picks up the check or the woman cares about the man not picking up the check.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 01-04-2012 at 03:34 PM..
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
29,756 posts, read 34,449,009 times
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Quote:
Yes, you don’t expect them but they beat you to the punch I suppose.
So if a couple is on a date and the guy insists on paying, what is the woman supposed to do? Get in an unpleasant and awkward argument about the check, or thank him graciously and offer to get it the next time? You keep implying that the first option is the best one.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,194,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onihC View Post


Yes, you don’t expect them but they beat you to the punch I suppose.


Huh? I said that I've never been lavished with gifts or taken to a lot fancy restaurants while dating someone - what punch have they beaten me to?

I assume you read into that statement and are referring to picking up the check? Well - I always offer - and no, I don't giggle and go Oopsie and let them pick it up. Sometimes they let me pick up the check and sometimes they didn't. But as someone else said - do you expect us to fight them - to be ungracious - to cause a scene - to tackle them to the ground? For what purpose?

Furthermore - why do you care what anyone else does? If a man wants to pay for a date and a women lets him - what difference does it make to you? Are you on a crusade to change all women into the type of woman that you think they should be? I just don't get it. If you don't want to pay for dates - then at the end of your dates - simply tell the woman how much she owes you.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Austin
773 posts, read 1,260,951 times
Reputation: 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by onihC View Post
If there are men who feel emasculated for not covering a woman’s expenses and so on I wonder if there is something comparable where women feel less of a woman if they let their man do, is there?
I'm not sure about this "less of a woman" feeling, but I do know that when my ex covered the living expenses for three months (we moved; I was looking for work), I felt like a little girl living under daddy's roof all over again. It made me feel very weak and vulnerable. I will say, however, that during this time, I worked my tush off in other ways, cleaning, doing laundry, running HIS errands, making sure meals were on the table, etc. I was a full-time maid, chef and personal assistant.

I didn't really like doing all this domestic crap, but that was the only way with which I could contribute to the household at the time. I get the feeling that a lot of women who want to be "taken care of" would bristle if this were expected of them in return.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:10 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,280,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
I never expected anyone to court me, pay me, take the initiative, etc. I've never had a guy lavish me with gifts or take me to fancy restaurants all the time. I've told you this sooooo many times. And most of my girlfriends are the same way. Whenever I dated anyone - including my husband - things just kind of happened organically. It wasn't all this - we have to make sure everything is 50/50!!! How much have you paid? How many times have you asked me out? How much do you like me? What have you done for me? How have you showed me that you like me? That just seems all very selfish to me. In my relationships - we don't keep track of everything like a spreadsheet. Most of the time - by the time we were dating - we would both make the plans together - nobody had to ask anyone out. And honestly - in most of my relationships - we didn't even have a "first date" or anything - we just started spending time together and next thing you know - we are kissing and in love.

People need to stop wasting so much energy on all this crap. If a person is worth it to you - you'll probably go to the end of the world for them - regardless of gender. If all you care about is who picks up the check - well, you have bigger things to worry about.
I've been there, with the whole lavished with gifts thing and the wining and dining. My college sweetheart was loaded out the yin-yang, and I can't tell you the number of men I ran into back in the day who tossed out the whole, "I want to spoil you" thing. It wasn't owing to any great beauty on my part (I'm a 7 on a good day), or even youth, because it happened again after my divorce and I divorced in my late 30s, but more from living in an urban area where there are a lot of high-earners with nothing better to do with their money than spend it. Oh, and being thin, blonde, with a big chest tends to attract those types, too. And honestly? The paternalism behind it sucks.

In college, meh, what did I know? I was just glad to date a guy who liked to go dancing and was secure enough in his masculinity to model and not be threatened when gay guys hit on him on assignment or at the clubs. In my late 30s post-divorce, hearing a prominent attorney blather on about it made my skin crawl. Like, what am I, a little china doll? Or a child? Go call [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Cutler"]Washingtonienne[/URL].

Even back in college, it came with a certain amount of pressure, not from my then-beau--although I'm sure that being ultra-thin had something to do with it--but his mother, who used to be a model, herself. I'll never forget being at a fashion show and her turning to me and saying, "Get your nose done and you can be up there with my son."

I just looked at her and said, "I'm 5'4". He's 6 feet tall. He wouldn't be in a petites show, beyotch." (Okay, I didn't say that last word. But I thought it! Never mind that she was wrong. My nose fits my face.)

The bottom line is that people who are hung up on, well, the bottom line, the superficial, and material things tend to carry that into their relationships. Not always, but often. Everything has a price tag. Everything is a commodity. Yuck.

Last edited by Yzette; 01-04-2012 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:16 PM
 
6,548 posts, read 7,286,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
But as someone else said - do you expect us to fight them - to be ungracious - to cause a scene - to tackle them to the ground? For what purpose?
How about talking about it the same way women talk to their men about splitting house chores?

Quote:
If a man wants to pay for a date and a women lets him - what difference does it make to you? Are you on a crusade to change all women into the type of woman that you think they should be?
I could say the same about those who say the opposite. That is why I have to end the paragraph saying that it is not wrong/right or “Personally, I prefer…” just like all the women who prefer to just let the man take care of them. They have their preferences, you have yours, I have mine, and we all come here to share our views. Heck, I date American women too regardless.

So, what would make a woman feel less-of-a-woman if she let her man take care of something? Just curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supernaut112 View Post
I'm not sure about this "less of a woman" feeling, but I do know that when my ex covered the living expenses for three months (we moved; I was looking for work), I felt like a little girl living under daddy's roof all over again. It made me feel very weak and vulnerable. I will say, however, that during this time, I worked my tush off in other ways, cleaning, doing laundry, running HIS errands, making sure meals were on the table, etc. I was a full-time maid, chef and personal assistant.
How nice of you. This was more because you wanted to contribute to the relationship in another way, right? But how about something that has to do with being a woman. For example, if I see a woman/man that can barely carry something, I’ll quickly approach and take the other end of whatever that person is carrying or carry it all if I am capable. I would feel less of a man to see a woman with a heavy burden while I am walking by her side with my hands on my pocket. Not only that but the scene doesn’t look right (woman carrying something while the man is whistling with his hands inside his pockets). If you saw a scene like that, you would also feel something was not right. Would there be something comparable where a woman would look bad for letting a man do it when she was “the woman in the relationship”?

Quote:
I get the feeling that a lot of women who want to be "taken care of" would bristle if this were expected of them in return.
Exactly. Lots of women around here have expressed how wrong it is for them to do house chores while their guy doesn’t, yet, when it comes to dating, you won’t see them complaining that women rarely ever contribute to expenses, taking the initiative, romancing the guy, and so on.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:18 PM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,280,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onihC View Post
[FONT=Verdana]I don’t expect you to understand what contributing to expenses means if you rarely ever open your wallet according to you and how men shower you with computers, tvs, etc. [/FONT]
You must have missed all the threads where I spoke about supporting my ex-husband and paying for nearly everything in the marriage.

Mod cut: Personal attack.

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Last edited by PJSaturn; 01-04-2012 at 03:49 PM..
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