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You just can't grovel and put women on pedestals; that's what they really don't like. They want you to act like men; a real man knows when to lead and when to allow someone else to have their own way. That's all it's about, really. Ego be damned.
This..this right here. Perhaps they could clone you and send you up here to New England? Your entire post was refreshing, but this part stood out to me.
I dont want a man to 'yes' me to death. I dont want someone groveling and acting all 'whipped'. I like a man to be a man.
But, i also want that man to understand that I also have a brain. And that I have feelings and opinions that I would like respected also. I appreciate him being a man, but I will also love him even more for being confident enough to let me make my own decisions about some things. Without him feeling I am challenging his manhood. It takes a REAL man to be able to do that.
That is a MAN... a leader when he needs to be, but steps back sometimes and just provides support. Oh my goodness. To find one of those these days. I would walk on hot coals i think.
guy #2 doesnt know you yet aside from a few emails..text on the internet. i would expect him to put life and other fun activities ahead of you. i think you should relax and cut him a break. its not like you guys have been dating a year
To address the couple of people who think I shouldn't be so hard on the second guy...
First of all, we made a "date" for him to call me within a certain timeframe, and it was clear that window was set specifically due to my schedule requirements.
Second, it's not like there was any important or unexpected conflict that came up at the last minute and prevented him from calling me at the agreed-upon time; he just decided to go for a bike ride instead.
Third, he made the in-your-face-rude move of very casually telling me he'd spent the time when our call was supposed to take place out on a bike ride instead. He might as well have said, "I know I agreed to call you between 5 and 8:30, but I decided to do something else instead and figured you could just talk to me whenever I felt like it."
Why agree to a specific timeframe, knowing about the other person's schedule/kid constraints, and then not honor the agreement? In my book, that's very inconsiderate behavior.
And like the title of this thread hints, I expected a little bit better behavior at the stage where the couple are supposed to be trying to make a good first impression on one another.
Stick to your guns. I agree with you here. And..if he did go on this bike ride, he should have at least acknowledge and aplogized that he called later than he was supposed to, and asked you if it was okay to continue the conversation, or would you like him to call back another time. And he should have done that as soon as he called. He could have redeemed himself a bit that way. If he had done that, then i would have said you should accept his apology and let it go. It's not so much that he went bike riding. Heck, he could have really thought he would be back in time. Stuff happens. Im a hiker, and started biking recedntly too. Things go longer than you expect sometimes. But, the fact that he didnt aplogize and acknowledge the bad timing of the call or ask you if you wanted him to call another time is the bigger issue for me.
But, he acted as if it was no big deal. I agree that it seems like manners are going out the door. I just dealt with this kind of behavior with my ex. Dont even bother with him if he is starting out that way before he even barely knows you. Next.
I might have chosen the bike ride over the call, BUT I would have texted her beforehand to let her know I wouldn't be calling. That seems reasonable, as no one is inconvenienced.
"Older guy here, I will never change. Today at two separate grocery stores I was polite to two women; it was chivalrous to do so (logjam in the aisles, someone had to wait for the other to pass, etc.). Not hitting on them, not even looking actually. But I could have, the reaction I got from them was that positive.
If there were pictures of my intereactions with these two women you might caption them with: 'Holy sh*t! he actually has manners! I wish my guy/the guy(s) I'm dating did!"
You may think women don't like chivalry/manners, but actually they are starving for it. And a lot of us guys love to do that because not only is it the right thing to do, it actually feels good, not for our self-worth, but to see how it makes them feel happier at that moment. You catch flies with honey, so to speak. I do NOT mean that you have to tell them or use body language to suggest: "I'm going to open your door because you are the weaker sex"; they will read the bitterness before you act, and resent being treated as a child. You make it as if it's a gift to them."
Young men think they have to act like they don't care to get a woman to chase them, but honestly that won't work, unless you are the alpha and usually can call all the shots. You just can't grovel and put women on pedestals; that's what they really don't like. They want you to act like men; a real man knows when to lead and when to allow someone else to have their own way. That's all it's about, really. Ego be damned".
Thank you on behalf of all women who appreciate men such as yourself. Please complete your profile so the women who are impressed by your post can "check you out". :-)
Set a dinner date with a guy I met on a dating site. The day of the date, I texted him to confirm around noon. He never texted back, but I figured there were many possible reasons for that so I went ahead to the restaurant. At the point where he was 10 mins late, I texted him to let him know I was at the restaurant. Again, no response. He showed up another 10 minutes later, cell phone in hand, moments before I was about to give up and get seated to dine alone. He didn't acknowledge his lateness or the lack of communication. Date went okay, no awkward silences, etc., but I was already turned off by what I saw to be his inconsiderate / borderline rude behavior before the date so I decided not to see him again.
Another guy I met on the same site messaged me back and forth a few times, then proposed we switch to the phone and we exchanged #s. I explained my kids would be out between 5-8:30pm tonight, and that would be the best time to call. He agreed to call me between those hours. Only, he didn't. Around 9:15pm I got a text from him saying he'd just come in from a long, arduous bike ride in the hills which he'd enjoyed very much, and was now fixing himself dinner. No apology, no acknowledgment of his flake out. Apparently, the bike ride was a higher priority for him than making a good impression on me. Again, I am left with a bad taste in my mouth and won't be responding to his texts or taking his calls going forward.
See, I tend to think if a guy is inconsiderate out of the gate, that tendency is only going to get worse. Am I wrong about this? Am I out of line to expect the guy to make an effort to put his best foot forward for me? Has dating etiquette deteriorated to the point that this is the norm, or am I just drawing an unusually high percentage of douchebags?
Lmao.....my experience with first impressions has been...different. The relationships I have had that ended up being the most passionate and energetic started with women that when we met..well...we didn't like each other at all. With one notable exception. Im not talking about casual dismissal stuff...I mean we did NOT like each otber. The whole when pigs fly you would see us on a date until...I don't know what happened..next thing ya know we couldn't stay away from each other. Happened more than once otherwise I would call it a fluke. Three times to be exact.
So, I decided that first impressions didn't matter all that much. Seen things go from 0 to redline with the start.being far less than encouraging.
Set a dinner date with a guy I met on a dating site. The day of the date, I texted him to confirm around noon. He never texted back, but I figured there were many possible reasons for that so I went ahead to the restaurant. At the point where he was 10 mins late, I texted him to let him know I was at the restaurant. Again, no response. He showed up another 10 minutes later, cell phone in hand, moments before I was about to give up and get seated to dine alone. He didn't acknowledge his lateness or the lack of communication. Date went okay, no awkward silences, etc., but I was already turned off by what I saw to be his inconsiderate / borderline rude behavior before the date so I decided not to see him again.
Another guy I met on the same site messaged me back and forth a few times, then proposed we switch to the phone and we exchanged #s. I explained my kids would be out between 5-8:30pm tonight, and that would be the best time to call. He agreed to call me between those hours. Only, he didn't. Around 9:15pm I got a text from him saying he'd just come in from a long, arduous bike ride in the hills which he'd enjoyed very much, and was now fixing himself dinner. No apology, no acknowledgment of his flake out. Apparently, the bike ride was a higher priority for him than making a good impression on me. Again, I am left with a bad taste in my mouth and won't be responding to his texts or taking his calls going forward.
See, I tend to think if a guy is inconsiderate out of the gate, that tendency is only going to get worse. Am I wrong about this? Am I out of line to expect the guy to make an effort to put his best foot forward for me? Has dating etiquette deteriorated to the point that this is the norm, or am I just drawing an unusually high percentage of douchebags?
your perception is right on, If he treats you with inconsideration now, wait until you are in a relationship or married to him. why would you be out of line to except good treatment? thats the question you should be asking-why are women accepting such low expectations and standards? the men today know that they can get sex without committment or working at a relationship so they treat women poorly, but women have such low standards and want to be just like men, thus incurring such poor treatment.
Set a dinner date with a guy I met on a dating site. The day of the date, I texted him to confirm around noon. He never texted back, but I figured there were many possible reasons for that so I went ahead to the restaurant. At the point where he was 10 mins late, I texted him to let him know I was at the restaurant. Again, no response. He showed up another 10 minutes later, cell phone in hand, moments before I was about to give up and get seated to dine alone. He didn't acknowledge his lateness or the lack of communication. Date went okay, no awkward silences, etc., but I was already turned off by what I saw to be his inconsiderate / borderline rude behavior before the date so I decided not to see him again.
Another guy I met on the same site messaged me back and forth a few times, then proposed we switch to the phone and we exchanged #s. I explained my kids would be out between 5-8:30pm tonight, and that would be the best time to call. He agreed to call me between those hours. Only, he didn't. Around 9:15pm I got a text from him saying he'd just come in from a long, arduous bike ride in the hills which he'd enjoyed very much, and was now fixing himself dinner. No apology, no acknowledgment of his flake out. Apparently, the bike ride was a higher priority for him than making a good impression on me. Again, I am left with a bad taste in my mouth and won't be responding to his texts or taking his calls going forward.
See, I tend to think if a guy is inconsiderate out of the gate, that tendency is only going to get worse. Am I wrong about this? Am I out of line to expect the guy to make an effort to put his best foot forward for me? Has dating etiquette deteriorated to the point that this is the norm, or am I just drawing an unusually high percentage of douchebags?
Okay..you are not over reacting period...The first man's behavior was just disgusting...If I were you ( Hindsight 20/20) I would have never showed up had he not responded to my text let alone not return a text or bother to call to state he was going to be late... I would have texted back..."Since you have not replied to my text I am going to assume we are not having dinner tonight...with that said? Good luck and I wish you the best in all your endeavors"
The second man? Rude...You are a single mother, this time was arranged and he agreed to it..SO for him to be blase and text you about his wonderful bike ride? ugggg..I hate the fact that Adults cannot follow through sometimes...I mean really? "Say what you mean and mean what you say" It really is not that complicated...!
I am glad you got rid of these callous and rude men..
Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil
You're hopelessly old-fashioned.
No matter your age, I'd be willing to bet that you're one of those women that should have been born a few decades earlier, when men were real men. You probably expect them to say "Please" and "Thank you"; carry heavy things and hold doors for you; pull your chair out for you in restaurants, and generally act like suave, sophisticated, classy guys, not egotistical, entitled and spoiled little boys.
You poor thing.
Excellent...And in defense of men? Not all chivalry is gone! I have had some very nice dates with men that will open the car door for me, open the door to a restaurant for me, Will ask if I am okay, how is my food...and if I would like to end the evening after Dinner ( Which was all that was planned) or would I like to go and get a drink...not assuming but very polite...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Blues
Older guy here, I will never change. Today at two separate grocery stores I was polite to two women; it was chivalrous to do so (logjam in the aisles, someone had to wait for the other to pass, etc.). Not hitting on them, not even looking actually. But I could have, the reaction I got from them was that positive.
If there were pictures of my intereactions with these two women you might caption them with: 'Holy sh*t! he actually has manners! I wish my guy/the guy(s) I'm dating did!"
You may think women don't like chivalry/manners, but actually they are starving for it. And a lot of us guys love to do that because not only is it the right thing to do, it actually feels good, not for our self-worth, but to see how it makes them feel happier at that moment. You catch flies with honey, so to speak. I do NOT mean that you have to tell them or use body language to suggest: "I'm going to open your door because you are the weaker sex"; they will read the bitterness before you act, and resent being treated as a child. You make it as if it's a gift to them.
Young men think they have to act like they don't care to get a woman to chase them, but honestly that won't work, unless you are the alpha and usually can call all the shots. You just can't grovel and put women on pedestals; that's what they really don't like. They want you to act like men; a real man knows when to lead and when to allow someone else to have their own way. That's all it's about, really. Ego be damned.
I say we have you CLONED!!!
As far as younger men? My spirits rose with hope today when I was at 7/11 both arms full...2 teenage boys one must have been the older brother about 17 and the younger chap must have been around 14.. The 14 year old waited for me to be rung up and held the door open for me...awwwwwww! I also teach this to my son...I state to him that this is the way gentleman behave and he should do this because he is paying respect to women whether he knows them or not..i.e. The way he does for me and my sister, aunts and his grammy..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname
I'm one of those old fashioned guys, but I'd cut guy #2 some slack... sometimes things happen, you get busy doing stuff and it's not like he couldn't call you tomorrow.
And (No disrespect) but your just some chick on the internet...
It's not like he's engaged to you.
if your so uptight that he got busy living life... he probably doesn't want to date you.
Now if it were a pattern, or he did like guy #1...
That's different.
LOL...Thanks for the warning..Honesty is good, I have always felt that some men as well as women need to come with a warning label! You are right about one thing...She is not his g/f...However he is on a DATING site and obviously felt the need to spark a connection with the poster right? And this usually means HE wants to get to know her better correct? Sooooo....even though she is "just some chick off of the nets?" He is trying to get to know her and this means be honest and follow through...If you agree to something? Than do it...do not be a flake...Or at least give her a courtesy text.."Hey going to for a bike ride may or not be back in time..if not I will shoot you a text with no expectations of a reply.." It is called COMMON COURTESY
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoistDude
I might have chosen the bike ride over the call, BUT I would have texted her beforehand to let her know I wouldn't be calling. That seems reasonable, as no one is inconvenienced.
Most people don't care anymore and it's get worse with age!haha! It's like "it is what it is" or "take me as I am or forget it".
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In my book, that's very inconsiderate behavior. 
