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The 'victim' card, is played, only after the ladies choose the 'bad boy', (why women always want to play 'mama' to them and reform them is beyond me, and why they get 'hurt' is only as clear as the nose on your face, because they should know, its inevitable, sheesh).
I tell the women that they should get councelling for constantly making all those 'bad choices'.
They have to find out 'why' they are so 'needy', and why they are asking for abuse!
They have two choices in thier lives, get someone who is 'nice' and will love them for whom they are, or, choose the 'bad boys' and live thier lives in misery, because he 'did' turn out to be 'bad' and make thier lives a living hell... Then, when your abused, and, before your half dead from the beatings or emotional hell that he has put you through, you 'BOTH' should be locked up for your own good!!
He for the Wife beater that he is, and you for being so stupid, because you thought you could 'change' him into something 'good', when he is already emotionally cripped and will just drag you down with him.
Granted, very 'few' men, can be changed, but, those few are the willing, and want to be, and, through time, will eventually come to see the 'light' on thier own, but a good woman beside them is always helpful, but, your rolling the dice, when you think 'you' can change them.. Its 'them' that want to change because they are tired of what they are doing
And thats my two cents worth, and a nickel for the collection plate
cpg35223 that's all very well and I'm no fan of victimhood myself, but still bobman mentioned some cases where you indeed have no control. Therefore, you can't control your life.
It's true that we're responsible for our own attitude and outlook on life, and it's very important to help yourself, allow healing, etc. As you say: try to make the best out of it. But in specific circumstances, particularly when they're random or unexpected, your adaptability can delay a lot, and most likely it will. Isn't it only natural?
You have a very simplistic life view, it's not for me to challenge it, They are your beliefs, and I am not about to try to change your mind, merely to bring a different perspective.
Agreed, as I said in another reply, my reply to your post did contain some of the most unlikely scenarios, however, they are most certainly not impossible.
Your point about autism scale people, and others with disabilities is noted, but it depends on the severity of the condition. A borderline case could go either way.
"captious and without merit" ? Maybe, but then the scenarios are hypothetical, and only intended as a point of debate, rather than a factual illustration.
All the scenarios I depicted have a sliding scale. Some things affect us more than others, sometimes it's a combination of circumstances which may conspire against us.
The list is also not exhaustive.
I have had my ups and downs, and fate has dealt me some cruel hands.
However, I consider myself much more fortunate than some others, in that I do have control over a great deal of my life.
I have lived it as much as has been possible, and despite the bad times, I have had an absolute ball !
I have made some bad decisions, and have paid the price for them, I have also largely managed to deal with the things which fate has thrust upon me.
Attitude can decide a lot, but it can't always affect circumstances. If these circumstances are forced upon us, then attitude may well define how well we can recover if things change, but it cannot always alter the situation.
Remember tho, for some people, it is not about embracing victimhood, but having it forced upon them,
None of us would choose to be a victim, but some have little option but to accept it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
So go ahead and embrace victimhood. But just do so knowing that there have been many, many others who have refused to do so and lived happier lives as a result--regardless of their situation.
cpg35223 that's all very well and I'm no fan of victimhood myself, but still bobman mentioned some cases where you indeed have no control. Therefore, you can't control your life.
It's true that we're responsible for our own attitude and outlook on life, and it's very important to help yourself, allow healing, etc. As you say: try to make the best out of it. But in specific circumstances, particularly when they're random or unexpected, your adaptability can delay a lot, and most likely it will. Isn't it only natural?
Absolutely. But that really wasn't the point of his post. Essentially, he was saying, "I am the exception to every possible rule. Please feel sorry for me."
It's pretty simple to me. There are things in almost every life that one can do to create a better life. I simply have no patience for people in reasonable health who talk about how terrible their jobs, relationships, and life are. If you are lonely, you are lonely for a reason. If you are dead broke after a few years in the job market, you are that way for a reason. And no amount of excuses will change that.
You appear to know absolutely nothing about domestic violence.
It really is not quite as simple as you appear to think. It is an incredibly complex issue, abusers are master manipulators, and their powers cannot be underestimated.
Unless you have been in that situation, it is impossible to understand.
Plesae, by all means, do some research on the matter.
To be a victim of DV is not a choice, no matter what you think.
For example, the average woman will leave their abuser 6 or 7 times before they are able to make it permanent.
The abuser has a very powerful hold.
Back to topic .................
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodworkingmenace
The 'victim' card, is played, only after the ladies choose the 'bad boy', (why women always want to play 'mama' to them and reform them is beyond me, and why they get 'hurt' is only as clear as the nose on your face, because they should know, its inevitable, sheesh).
I tell the women that they should get councelling for constantly making all those 'bad choices'.
They have to find out 'why' they are so 'needy', and why they are asking for abuse!
They have two choices in thier lives, get someone who is 'nice' and will love them for whom they are, or, choose the 'bad boys' and live thier lives in misery, because he 'did' turn out to be 'bad' and make thier lives a living hell... Then, when your abused, and, before your half dead from the beatings or emotional hell that he has put you through, you 'BOTH' should be locked up for your own good!!
He for the Wife beater that he is, and you for being so stupid, because you thought you could 'change' him into something 'good', when he is already emotionally cripped and will just drag you down with him.
Granted, very 'few' men, can be changed, but, those few are the willing, and want to be, and, through time, will eventually come to see the 'light' on thier own, but a good woman beside them is always helpful, but, your rolling the dice, when you think 'you' can change them.. Its 'them' that want to change because they are tired of what they are doing
And thats my two cents worth, and a nickel for the collection plate
I have a couple of friends who are female and are mothers of young children (8 and younger).
One is an older friend who I talk to every one or two months (consequently, it's the same story every time I speak with her). The other is a newer friend who I just met within the last year. Both of these women are very attractive but have both been in emotionally abusive relationships. One is single, the other is remarried but unfortunately seemed to have attracted another unhealthy relationship.
Every time I talk to these women they are going through some sort of crisis. They could be the same person they are so similar in their outlook on life. It is the same pattern of behavior. They keep attracting toxic relationships. The one who is single has an on again off again boyfriend for the last 7 years, he only calls her when he wants something from her, usually sex. And she will say things like "If he would just let me know if he wants to be with me or not, why does he have to keep playing games with me?" And I tell her that she doesn't have to allow him into her life, she needs to decide if he is what she wants, not the other way around.
My other friend who is married (but is probably going to get another divorce) has a rule for her husband such as he is forbidden to carpool with anyone from the opposite sex. She thinks her husband is not respecting her because her feelings should come first. When I ask her why this rule she informed me that women and men are not to be alone because it will lead to an affair. When I tell her that I couldn't live by her rule and that it would make my job very difficult and akward for me to tell my boss or coworkers that I can't ride in a car alone with them she seemed surprised. Her need to control her husband is getting in the way of her own happiness.
Another friend claims that her husband needs to do this or do that to make her happy. Seriously? No he doesn't, she is responsible for her happiness. Needless to say she is constantly miserable.
Anyway the point of this thread is to inform women that you need to take responsibility for your life. If there is one thing that I could tell all of my clients and friends it is this: Take control and stop choosing to be the victim!
One thing that I hear a lot is "I'm a survivor" as if it's a badge of honor. That's good, but survival is only one level higher than death. Rise from mere surviving your life to living your life and then you can move to thriving. That's the goal. Don't stay stuck on survival mode.
I also hear excuses such as;
I was abandoned when I was little, my father abused me, my mother was not emotionally available, my husband doesn't respect me, my kids don't listen to me, I can't get a job, my husband cheated on me, blah blah blah.
This may be very true and I'm not saying that your story isn't valid. But stop using these excuses to keep you small and helpless. Learn and grow and don't look back. There is a life waiting for you to unlock, stop looking at the locked door proclaiming why you can't open it. Find the key, walk through and start living the life you were destined for! It's as simple as opening the door and changing your thought patterns. You are the only one who controls your life, so take it and live it. Your happiness depends on your ability to take ownership of your life. And as Dr. Phil says "You teach people how to treat you".
May your life be blessed.
great post i try to say this stuff. "own your own stuff", but then i make them angry.
well done. u got rep.
You appear to know absolutely nothing about domestic violence.
It really is not quite as simple as you appear to think. It is an incredibly complex issue, abusers are master manipulators, and their powers cannot be underestimated.
Unless you have been in that situation, it is impossible to understand.
Plesae, by all means, do some research on the matter.
To be a victim of DV is not a choice, no matter what you think.
For example, the average woman will leave their abuser 6 or 7 times before they are able to make it permanent.
The abuser has a very powerful hold.
Back to topic .................
And, as social workers will tell you, the most important and powerful message they have to tell these women is, get this, "You have control over your own life." In other words, the entire point of the original poster. What's more, the most important way to prevent this kind of relationship is to help women understand that, once again, they have control over their own lives. As I tell my dating-age daughter: The minute a boy lays anything but a loving hand on you, or makes you feel bad about yourself, walk away. No matter where you are, call your mother or me and we will come find you. That is having control over one's own life.
Maybe this isn't the forum for this, but I'm afraid you are being simplistic again.
Do you rthink you are the only father to tell their daughter that ?
Even common sense tells us that.
However, as I say, abusers are expert manipulators. This will come first in all but the rarest of cases. If you like, they get their cover story in first.
Very rarely will an abuser start with physical violernce.
If it ever happens, you rarely know you are being abused until it's too late. Once you are trapped in that cycle, it is extremely difficult to escape.
Dod you read the link I posted ?
As a father of a daughter, I'd hope you are extremely familiar with what to look for to recognise signs of a potential abuser being with your daughter. If you aren't, anfd are trusting her to listen to purely what you said, then is that a good choice ?
You have more power to recognize that situation than she does if you are knowkedgeable about the subject.
Trust me, if you are being abused, you do not have control of your life. Your abusser does.
Agreed, the victim at some point does require to regain control to leave, but this is not a straightforward process.
Also, the process of how people appear to be drawn toward toxic situations is very debatable. There is an element of choice, but t's very complex.
I don't profess to understand it, perhaps a psychologist could explain it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
And, as social workers will tell you, the most important and powerful message they have to tell these women is, get this, "You have control over your own life." In other words, the entire point of the original poster. What's more, the most important way to prevent this kind of relationship is to help women understand that, once again, they have control over their own lives. As I tell my dating-age daughter: The minute a boy lays anything but a loving hand on you, or makes you feel bad about yourself, walk away. No matter where you are, call your mother or me and we will come find you. That is having control over one's own life.
Maybe this isn't the forum for this, but I'm afraid you are being simplistic again.
Do you rthink you are the only father to tell their daughter that ?
Even common sense tells us that.
However, as I say, abusers are expert manipulators. This will come first in all but the rarest of cases. If you like, they get their cover story in first.
Very rarely will an abuser start with physical violernce.
If it ever happens, you rarely know you are being abused until it's too late. Once you are trapped in that cycle, it is extremely difficult to escape.
Dod you read the link I posted ?
As a father of a daughter, I'd hope you are extremely familiar with what to look for to recognise signs of a potential abuser being with your daughter. If you aren't, anfd are trusting her to listen to purely what you said, then is that a good choice ?
You have more power to recognize that situation than she does if you are knowkedgeable about the subject.
Trust me, if you are being abused, you do not have control of your life. Your abusser does.
Agreed, the victim at some point does require to regain control to leave, but this is not a straightforward process.
Also, the process of how people appear to be drawn toward toxic situations is very debatable. There is an element of choice, but t's very complex.
I don't profess to understand it, perhaps a psychologist could explain it.
And yet, the ones who are susceptible to an abuser are the ones who don't recognize that they, indeed, are the ones in control of their own lives. So what you're saying is that those who don't exercise control over their lives are the ones who don't have control over their lives.
yanno, I have to comment about how aloof some of you are about this subject, you've never walked in they're shoes, so how can you judge...I repeat, a child that is raised in an abused home, is conditioned to not know how to take control of they're own lives....you have no clue...and yet you judge as if they are some kind of scum...well, I've been there, was abused terribly by a mother that should have never been a parent, and then sexually abused by an uncle, for 5 years of my life and that started when I was 5 years old...I came out of it fine, oh, I've had problems but went for help, my cousins didn't fair nearly as well as I did...you have no idea what conditioning is...and how it controls your choices and identities...it's a very difficult place to be, and changing it is even more difficult. It took me years...
No one has the right to treat someone else the way some people are treated...and I'd really love to have seen how you handle being raised like that...being beat up constantly, being told your no good...deaf to this day b/c you were slapped across the ears until they rang...bloody nose, bloody mouth...had your hair pulled so hard you screamed, and no one came to help me...I was told about sex over and over and over again, by my real mother, as if she was talking to her best friend...she was extremely hateful...hated men, hated life or anyone who had any kind of fortune....hated me, told me over and over again, she was going to call the cops and have them take me away, I prayed she did.
And I picked men that were LOSERS! The next was worse then the last...why? Because I believe, truly believed I didn't deserve any better.
you guys have no clue and can only see black and white...and it's a shame...
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