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Yanno we all want to be liked, but not at the expense of our beliefs....
We compromise our identities when we fear standing up for what we believe in, b/c we're afraid of being alone or being judged, or disagreeing with someone b/c they feel differently about an issue. That is so wrong...
It's ok to be you....it's ok to speak up and say, hey, that is unaceptable behavior and I don't like it....it's ok to dislike how your being treated...it's ok to stop being used, or fearing rejection or ridicule cuz you've spoken up and no one else feels like you do.
I've read once, that morality is a lonely walk...and being honest even when it is most difficult to be so, is the best thing, and letting go of someone no matter how much you love them, can be the greatest gift you can give someone.
All these things are true....but people are so afraid to go against society and stand up and be counted. I started this thread to perhaps instill initiative to do just that.
Peace at all costs, is no peace at all....
When you compromise who you are for a spouse, or for in laws, or your family just to keep peace, then you begin to make yourself a victim. And I've surely had victim stamped across my forehead.
But since I've been alone...I've been learning a lot thru self examiniation...the acquaintences in your life, you can count on both hands and feet...but the true friends you will make in your lifetime you can count on one hand.
so why do we fear standing alone on our moral grounds and be leaders instead of followers. Why do we fear admitting perhaps that we voted for the wrong man...yet, if our leaders are corrupt, we will back them to the hilt
If our parents were say, republicans, do you realize how many people fear...changing their party, due to that...like it would be an insult to their family, or worse, a disloyality???? Yet, we feel that we must live up to the expectations of others???? Why???
We feel we must get approval from our families and friends to be happy, and if they nix something we're real excited about, we listen and end of loosing out.
Do you realize, so many of our parents kept from doing things due to fears and conditioning from their parents...what you might call, small town mentality. Think about how your parents conditioned you, actaully brain washed you into believing religion, your morals, your perspectives on life...if they were negative, then you are negative..and don't see the potential in yourself....if they were abused, then you might have been abused, so you chose an abusive mate?
so, I guess this is actually an open thread, to discuss anything I've placed here...in addition...since I've been here, I've noticed so many people who email you and give you reps and say, great post, and I'm with ya all the way, but actually fear joining in the conversation, for fear of being rejected, or disliked, b/c someone else might not agree.
Yanno, it's ok to disagree and have different opinions...but it's not ok to bully someone b/c of their opinions...and people fear being judged for that...
this is part of what I'm trying to open this thread up for discussion.
So, please feel free to join in....and lets discuss our fears when it comes to standing on our own...what have you done lately to work on self confidence, or self examination?
I tell you, since I split with my ex over 11 years ago, it's been a self examination road...and for the first time in my life, I feel so free, so capable, so, full of potential...cuz there is no one there stagnating my abilities b/c they fear my identity, my potential. I found that only through self examination did I find answers....for instance...
I could not understand how any man could treat me so cruely, beat me, put me down verbally, then, once I left, after I got over the shock...got into counseling...started writing....I started asking questions of myself...like....
Why did I believe I didn't deserve more
Why did I accept so little
Why did I compromise my entire identity
Why did I put up with such low life behavior from a man that I loved
Why did I make the choices I made
and when I started doing that, I was able to accept my own disfunctionalities and go forth and change....little baby steps at a time....then I started to realize how as a woman, I had been surpressed most of my life..b/c people feared my intelligence, and I actaully played dumb b/c men feared confident strong intelligent women.
So, there ya go....lots of stuff to get started with....and all you gents, please feel free to join in...there is nothing more attractive then a man who is not afraid to let it out.
Men, if you dads cheated, chances are you might cheat?
Ladies, if you pamper your sons and don't teach them how to cook, clean and do their own laundry and shop, you will create a monster for his wife.
Ladies, if you raise your daughters to believe they have to get married to be taken care of or to be successful....?????
nuff said, open for discussion...
Last edited by cremebrulee; 08-29-2007 at 12:50 PM..
I tend to agree with a lot of what youve shared here. But, I will admit that Ive only skimmed over it because I just got home from a long night at work, and Im tired right now. And, no offense, but it is a really long post with a lot of points for us all to consider. I think a lot of what it all boils down to is this climate of "political correctness" that seems to me like a dark cloud of absolute BS that hangs over our nation. But, how can I trample on others because of this, when more and more, I find myself in situations where I am just as guilty of this as anyone else I know of? Then, of course theres that old saying about how we catch more bees with honey than we do with lemons. Then, theres diplomacy, (whatever THAT is), I mean, Id be willing to bet that if you ask ten or twelve people what their definition of that word is, you would get a variety of opinions. So, for now Ill just say Ive not read your thread very closely, but later on I will, and Im quite sure I will have more opinions later on. Again, I do pretty much agree with most of what I read. Take care now
I tend to agree with a lot of what youve shared here. But, I will admit that Ive only skimmed over it because I just got home from a long night at work, and Im tired right now. And, no offense, but it is a really long post with a lot of points for us all to consider. I think a lot of what it all boils down to is this climate of "political correctness" that seems to me like a dark cloud of absolute BS that hangs over our nation. But, how can I trample on others because of this, when more and more, I find myself in situations where I am just as guilty of this as anyone else I know of? Then, of course theres that old saying about how we catch more bees with honey than we do with lemons. Then, theres diplomacy, (whatever THAT is), I mean, Id be willing to bet that if you ask ten or twelve people what their definition of that word is, you would get a variety of opinions. So, for now Ill just say Ive not read your thread very closely, but later on I will, and Im quite sure I will have more opinions later on. Again, I do pretty much agree with most of what I read. Take care now
Dennis, thank you, you've surely added some very constructive points of which I believe are very valid. Thank you for attempting to join in and play.
I know it was a long post, I'm so long winded...sorry.
get some sleep and hopefully we'll talk more.
I truly think to, Political correctness has placed fear in our hearts, cuz when I'm being honest, I find myself wondering if I could get in trouble for speaking out? Yes, your right. And it will be our demise I fear.
I think a lot of people just want to fit into a group so they just go along with everyone else, I don't think people keep up with current events, they only hear about it from a friend, they don't speak out because they don't have a clue what thieir talking about and they might not fit in with the in crowd
The "political correctness" makes me sick, I play it while I'm at work only because I would get fired if I didn't.
Many people are just sheep, they watch TV or listen to radio and they believe what they hear, I know quite a few that do this, they pick one of those screeming idiots and follow every word they speak.
"I've noticed so many people who email you and give you reps and say, great post, and I'm with ya all the way, but actually fear joining in the conversation, for fear of being rejected, or disliked, b/c someone else might not agree. "
I do that from time to time but only because you all can express it much better than myself.
I think a lot of people just want to fit into a group so they just go along with everyone else, I don't think people keep up with current events, they only hear about it from a friend, they don't speak out because they don't have a clue what thieir talking about and they might not fit in with the in crowd
The "political correctness" makes me sick, I play it while I'm at work only because I would get fired if I didn't.
Many people are just sheep, they watch TV or listen to radio and they believe what they hear, I know quite a few that do this, they pick one of those screeming idiots and follow every word they speak.
"I've noticed so many people who email you and give you reps and say, great post, and I'm with ya all the way, but actually fear joining in the conversation, for fear of being rejected, or disliked, b/c someone else might not agree. "
I do that from time to time but only because you all can express it much better than myself.
Hey Roaddog...thanks for joining in...yeah, I know what you mean...I was told one time at work I wan't allowed to say Christmas, I had to say Holiday...I said, yeah, right. Yanno, it's my Christmas, your holiday...period.
I used to worry about not fitting in, boug being rejected, now I say my peace, and yanno something...they may not like it, but they respect you more...and yanno something else...I'm a loner, so I don't care about fitting in...can't play those silly corporate games...
But I do know what you mean...and I think this country had to learn to realize that we're all different, and we all have different opinions...and we should learn more tollerance and allowance, yanno
creme,
While nothing that you stated really bothered me, I'm not so sure that I agree with even half of what you said either.
I don't really believe that people's personalities are the result of conditioning as much as I think that they are the result of genetics. Many parents learn that their kids have personalities that aren't shaped by them. Sure, there have been studies that show how birth order can affect the degree of how much kids want to please their parents, about how estudious they can be, and rebellious etc... but very often the parents are just helping to develop the child's inner potential that they were born with and inherited.
Then when it comes to morality there is God and one's personal philosphy, if they even have any. There's all kinds of people, and some are blessed with more compassion and understanding than others. Does it come from the genes, or from the fate or direction of God, or is it conditioning? Maybe you believe that all of these contibute to one's personality and behavior patterns or not. But to how much of a degree is usually always the bone of contention. But let's not overwhelmingly say that we've all been "conditioned" and that's the reason why people act the way they do.
It's said that 90% of the general population have some kind of pyschological problems in their background. So virtually no one is immune from having quirks in their personality. It's just that some people have an overwhelmingly greater amount of psychological problems than others, right? And many of these develop over the years. Yet everyone wants a mate or companion without any flaws that they have to deal with. Go figure.
So once we establish that most people develop some kind of quirky emotional problems over the course of their lifetime, then it's very easy to see that the amount of friction and conflict that most people experience in their relationships is quite common.
How to deal with it? Well, most everyone speaks from the perspective of their personal experience. Quite frankly, many many couples simply throw in the towel and get divorced. I can't say whether that's good or bad, but it's certainly more acceptable today than it's ever been. Then there is the minority of couples that do try to work out there problems because there is enough of a foundation to try to stay together. By foundation, I mean love, kids, friendship, compatibility, hopes, dreams, fate, faith, God, health....
I often wonder why more people don't try to work out their problems by seeking professional or spiritual guidance. But I guess we're talking about a myriad of issues that get more complicated by age, gender, hormones, & personality (whether conditioned or inherited).
By the time many people reach a certain age or number of relationships, they've been through the ringer so many times it seems, that they're shell shocked by what reality has done to them.
Since it's impossible for people to sue God, maybe they should sue their parents or grandparents for the choices they make? Let's see, which ones can be blamed for their circumstances, their mama's or their papa's?
Ok Creme- I'm going to bite on one aspect of your post because I've been in that same place:
"I could not understand how any man could treat me so cruely, beat me, put me down verbally, then, once I left, after I got over the shock...got into counseling...started writing....I started asking questions of myself...like....
Why did I believe I didn't deserve more
Why did I accept so little
Why did I compromise my entire identity
Why did I put up with such low life behavior from a man that I loved
Why did I make the choices I made
and when I started doing that, I was able to accept my own disfunctionalities and go forth and change....little baby steps at a time....then I started to realize how as a woman, I had been surpressed most of my life..b/c people feared my intelligence, and I actaully played dumb b/c men feared confident strong intelligent women. "
I think some of the wisdom you reference gaining comes with age-------- so many of us come from broken homes and we have no healthy relationships to model. I don't know if experience or age is responsible but my abusive relationship started in my early 20s and ended in my early 30s.
I like to think I'm too smart now to ever repeat that mistake- but maybe it's my experience that gave me those smarts.
But I do think that when I was younger I was more eager to please and impress other people. Now it's just too much work to put on airs and pretend that I'm something that I'm really not. What you see is what you get- and if you don't like it, buh-bye!
Maybe I'm just bringing more questions into this thread....... is it age or experience that changes that?
creme,
While nothing that you stated really bothered me, I'm not so sure that I agree with even half of what you said either.
I don't really believe that people's personalities are the result of conditioning as much as I think that they are the result of genetics. Many parents learn that their kids have personalities that aren't shaped by them. Sure, there have been studies that show how birth order can affect the degree of how much kids want to please their parents, about how estudious they can be, and rebellious etc... but very often the parents are just helping to develop the child's inner potential that they were born with and inherited.
Then when it comes to morality there is God and one's personal philosphy, if they even have any. There's all kinds of people, and some are blessed with more compassion and understanding than others. Does it come from the genes, or from the fate or direction of God, or is it conditioning? Maybe you believe that all of these contibute to one's personality and behavior patterns or not. But to how much of a degree is usually always the bone of contention. But let's not overwhelmingly say that we've all been "conditioned" and that's the reason why people act the way they do.
It's said that 90% of the general population have some kind of pyschological problems in their background. So virtually no one is immune from having quirks in their personality. It's just that some people have an overwhelmingly greater amount of psychological problems than others, right? And many of these develop over the years. Yet everyone wants a mate or companion without any flaws that they have to deal with. Go figure.
So once we establish that most people develop some kind of quirky emotional problems over the course of their lifetime, then it's very easy to see that the amount of friction and conflict that most people experience in their relationships is quite common.
How to deal with it? Well, most everyone speaks from the perspective of their personal experience. Quite frankly, many many couples simply throw in the towel and get divorced. I can't say whether that's good or bad, but it's certainly more acceptable today than it's ever been. Then there is the minority of couples that do try to work out there problems because there is enough of a foundation to try to stay together. By foundation, I mean love, kids, friendship, compatibility, hopes, dreams, fate, faith, God, health....
I often wonder why more people don't try to work out their problems by seeking professional or spiritual guidance. But I guess we're talking about a myriad of issues that get more complicated by age, gender, hormones, & personality (whether conditioned or inherited).
By the time many people reach a certain age or number of relationships, they've been through the ringer so many times it seems, that they're shell shocked by what reality has done to them.
Since it's impossible for people to sue God, maybe they should sue their parents or grandparents for the choices they make? Let's see, which ones can be blamed for their circumstances, their mama's or their papa's?
Well, you've made some good points, but we are in fact conditioned by our parents, and close relatives..from the time we are born, we learn their language, their religious and moral beliefs...and either, city, rural or small town concepts...and from there we move on...if our parents had good parenting skills, and they were mature, moral, law abiding people, we will most likely carry on their culture. Depending on our life experiences, schooling, etc...we will branch out from there...
If one of our parents is controlling, abusive, or of a lesser life style, we will in fact inherit some if not all of that baggage...so, yes ineed, we are, regardless of genetics, conditioned by the culture of our parents, whatever that may be...and those relationships will carry on our culture, right into our children....
Ok Creme- I'm going to bite on one aspect of your post because I've been in that same place:
"I could not understand how any man could treat me so cruely, beat me, put me down verbally, then, once I left, after I got over the shock...got into counseling...started writing....I started asking questions of myself...like....
Why did I believe I didn't deserve more
Why did I accept so little
Why did I compromise my entire identity
Why did I put up with such low life behavior from a man that I loved
Why did I make the choices I made
and when I started doing that, I was able to accept my own disfunctionalities and go forth and change....little baby steps at a time....then I started to realize how as a woman, I had been surpressed most of my life..b/c people feared my intelligence, and I actaully played dumb b/c men feared confident strong intelligent women. "
I think some of the wisdom you reference gaining comes with age-------- so many of us come from broken homes and we have no healthy relationships to model. I don't know if experience or age is responsible but my abusive relationship started in my early 20s and ended in my early 30s.
I like to think I'm too smart now to ever repeat that mistake- but maybe it's my experience that gave me those smarts.
But I do think that when I was younger I was more eager to please and impress other people. Now it's just too much work to put on airs and pretend that I'm something that I'm really not. What you see is what you get- and if you don't like it, buh-bye!
Maybe I'm just bringing more questions into this thread....... is it age or experience that changes that?
Wow- I guess I didn't help much.
Yes, age is a maturing factor...your right...and yes, me to....youth did hold close those years of wanting to please...and look for approval...
hmmm, age or experience? I think both bring changes...which can be positive or negative as experiences can certainly taint us...
and yes, you did help...every word is a contribution...
I find life invigeratting...full of wide eyed wonder...and upon looking back, brings my sight to the future as well...and every person I ment a long the way was an insight into tomorrow. Every experience was a groom, and life, certainly is a treasure of moments...all rolled up into one...
and I do so love this forum...and the community which makes it successful...there are so many marvelous individuals, with great insight, and a willingness to participate, learn and be open minded. The humor and views are fun...so, thanks be to everyone who makes up these forums and contributes so much wisdom to these pages.
Why did I believe I didn't deserve more
Why did I accept so little
Why did I compromise my entire identity
Why did I put up with such low life behavior from a man that I loved
Why did I make the choices I made
Conditioning. It was all that I knew. We were together since High School, I knew nothing different, but neither did he. it was the way he was brought up...it was what he saw.
When I brought my first born from the hospital they gave me a poem, Children learn what they live.
Did I learn, as a child to be that person? No. Was there a lot of love in my house? No. Did I have the Lord? Not til I was 25, had my own family, and made my decision, that something was missing, and it was Him.
It all started when i was 17, and I am 33 now. I am a child of God, and children learn what they live. I am beginning to live again, and I will be learning again. I have no parents, they are both gone. I do have older role models.
All of my brothers and sisters have changed now as well, they have all been saved, and they now all have the Lord on their side.
I ask this. how in the world did this happen? We grew in a home that knew nothing of the Lord, but after our parents died, took some of us longer than the others, we call came to Christ.
I am Christian, So Baptist, as well as my sister and brother. My other brother chose to be Catholic, his wife is Catholic.
I will not get into a religious debate....(LOL) but the thing is..we did not have HIM...but He found us.
had I not had Him, I would not have been able to move on to where I am today. I dare not say I will be alone. I will have my children.
I have finally awakened to what has happened in my life. I suppose i could have gone n many years. So happy i did not. Not only was it affecting me, but my children.
I feel old, but I think that will change, I am 33. I feel beyond my years. Could be the caregiving of my parents, as they were dying, and burying them. Could be the abuse of this marriage. Who knows what it is, but day by day, replenishment comes.
Sometimes, I feel down in the dumps...
A good friend of mine says...Robyn...just a minor bump in the road..
Indeed.
I dont know how long I will be alone in the sense of a man goes, but truly, that does not matter.....I have gone a long time in that way.
I will revisit.
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My half-asleep thoughts--so far
