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Good morning all - I think this is probably going to be a long note, so bear with me
Robyn - As you and the others (who I STILL can't rep!!!!) have said - holding things in is not good and can create a whole boat-load of troubles now and in the future. You might want to see if you can give A and L another definition, if you will, for the "stay strong" mantra.....Rather than using TJ's definition, try another one, for example:
Staying strong - to some people it means holding all your emotions in and not letting people see how you feel, if something is bothering you, if you need help, or if you just feel like crying. Staying strong to other people means being strong enough to say what you are feeling, what is bothering you, crying if you feel like it and asking and then letting someone help you. People who use the first "definition" will eventually reach a point where they explode and say and do things that hurt those closest to them....people who go by the second "definition" generally do not have the "explosion" because they are able to get it all out at the time it's happening.....does that make sense?
TJ is, at least in my experience, very typical of an emotional/psychologically abuser - he does not see or realize that the hurt that comes from the abuse he inflicted on you and the kids is abuse - after all, he didn't knock you around like a punching bag, hence in HIS mind, there was no abuse.....although how he could justify tripping A in the grocery store that day as not being abuse I don't know. One could argue that it was the way he was raised, so it's understandable that he sees nothing abusive in his ways....However, and this is a big however - this is not the same era in which he was raised where that type of behavior was commonplace and spouses and children just went along with it as being natural - we have learned that it is not natural and is just as harmful, sometimes more so, than physical abuse - TJ cannot stand on the argument, "It was good enough for my family when I was growing up, so it's good enough for our family, too" - Unless he's been living in a cave somewhere with the Geico cavemen guys, he knows it's wrong....actually I think even the Geico cavemen would know it's wrong
As it has been said before - you have no "obligation" to contact TJ to talk to the kids - that's up to him. If he doesn't call them for whatever reason, he "owns" that, not you. If he doesn't call, will the kids be hurt? Probably. Will you be the one who has to deal with that hurt? Most definitely. Is it fair? No. Don't make excuses for TJ not calling. Just tell the kids you don't know why he didn't call and they will have to ask him, that he knows how to reach them, but for some reason he didn't.
You are doing a wonderful job at keeping the kids out of the middle of what is going on between you and TJ - TJ is trying to keep them in the middle. The kids don't need to know all the specifics of what is going on, but they do need to know that what TJ does is TJ's responsibility - not yours, not theirs, HIS. They also need to know that the House of Chimes is yours and theirs and not his and he has no right to be in the House of Chimes UNLESS YOU invite him there.
I'll shut up now and will only say - Stay Strong (with the new definition, not TJ's definition)....there's an old Gloria Gaynor song (I think she sang it, anyway) - "I Will Survive" - that was my "theme song" for many years...it carried me through my years of agoraphobia and panic disorder, my years with my ex and his abuse, and my years of moving forward and into the much better life that I have now....You and the children will also survive and thrive....I guarantee it.....
Robyn, if you strugge with getting into counseling, I have an idea that might help the kids immediately. Maybe you need to schedule "family meetings" a couple times a week. Maybe with both kids or maybe one at a time- depends on how things go. But sit down with them and encourage them to share their feelings with you- and you start the conversation by talking about something that made you feel not so good- I was sad this weekend when......... I was mad this weekend when............ I was disappointed this weekend when..... and encourage the kids to do the same. Even if it's as simple as those two sentences, when they learn that it's ok to express themselves.
Pirate Girl - that is a great idea - A & L will really get into it I bet! I was not online this weekend and I am just catching up and I am so amazed at those two children. They are incredible and Robyn - you are incredible!
I am so glad the visitation thing diffused the way it did. It makes me glad that he is not pushier than he already is and he is obviously scared of the court thing in general.
This month will be nerve wracking - but at least it will be over before the holidays!!
So sorry work is rough - ever notice how when it rains it pours!
You are doing great. How about instead of stay strong - keep the faith - to remind them to put it in God's hands......
I also agree that you can't sugar coat it. Tell them the truth - that's not bad mouthing their father - but why should you keep taking the hits? Your children are so mature ( I know it may not always seem that way!!) and so loving - you should be so proud of them and proud of yourself!!!
Robyn, since L told you that stay strong meant to hold things in, I wouldn't doubt that "stay strong" is a code word for "don't talk about things that go on here (at his house)."
He knows that you found out about the sleeping arrangements and probably doesn't want other things getting back to you.
This guy is such a terrible model for his children. I wouldn't doubt that he doesn't hand A a beer and cigarette the next time he's over and say "have at it, you're a man now."
Great advice everyone. Hang in there Robyn, you'll come through this just fine.
I over-posted and missed the last bunch of posts ~ Syn, you are on the mark about this guy, he has manipulated to his advantage with this "stay strong" stuff. Good idea windchimes and others, for dealing with that. All of you posters this morning are amazing.
Robyn, this guy is so insecure, he still needs to intimidate women and children...don't worry, it's obvious he's plenty nervous about the court case. You have so much documentation about his neglect and verbal abuse, you just need the courage to explain all of it to the judge (bring your log book). Judge Judy always likes to see documentation!
If you want to feel more strength doing this, here's a suggestion that comes out of my own personal experiences. That morning, remind yourself
* how you and the children felt at the IHOP (or wherever) in NC, when he publicly humiliated you, pushing and yelling at you, openly treating you all like rotten children. That incident alone, will be in your babies' psyche for a long time to come, giving them cause to pause, when out socially.
* His continually treating you all ill-mannerly and playing the blame-game in their lives, has already influenced how they will deal with others and life.
* Your children have absorbed so much of ib at this point, that it will affect how they would describe love, the type of loving relationship they will be comfortable with, whether they get married, who they marry, how much derrogatory treatment they will be comfortable with before putting their foot down and acting out of personal pride...yada, yada, yada. WORSE YET, abusers will be attracted to them, because A&L are so desensitized to being in an abusive environment, they are comfortable managing it.
If they were with a therapist, he/she would ask them, "what's different living alone with Mom, from when the family lived together." You can ask it, but a therapist would never lead them in their answers, rather they would guide them to recognize how it really was at home with dad. They can still love dad, but they need to recognize that dad isn't doing as well as he should be...when they understand that, ib's power over them will be lessened.
* Robyn, also don't forget what it felt like inside yourself to witness MIL's allowing sexual abuse to occur ~ she is a sick human being. That issue has been very damaging to your psyche...MIL shouldn't be alone with your children. I'd love to be there when ib hears you reveal his family's shame.
The effects of having ib in all your lives thus far, has been tremendously damaging. I think you should shelve your dream of the kids' having a fatherly influence in their lives at this time, and rather opt for supervised visitation only, without his family, until he completes parenting training, therapy, or he just grows up. I don't believe these interventions will ever happen or truly change ib, but I think a judge needs to know what it is truly like behind closed doors with this bulling ba$tard, and he should respond in the best interests of your children...not in your best interests, but your children's.
Too much rambling, sorry guys, off to work...praying you have a good day Robyn & Kalo.
Have your lawyer ask him - in front of the judge - what stay strong means and then have him ask you what the kids told you.
Remember - kids don't keep secrets from parents and anyone who asks them to is wrong. You could actually start talking to them about dating and use that one - sneak it in there without it seeming like a direct hit on their father.
I'm so aggravated I can't rep MsV for that most excellent post!
I can and will
one thing that is sort of funny in a strange way IB TJ last nerve worker or whatever we are calling him has no idea that his recent behavior is doing nothing but strengthening robyns case.
I so agree with the attorney bringing up these points to the judge for explanation.
and yes on the log judges love it when things are nice and tidy not to mention that no matter how nervous you may be robyn you will have your notes
I realize you are not playing a game robyn - but the nervous-ness will show and that will help you - the judge will see that this is very important to you - that you aren't being cocky - but that your children come first
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