Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I just spoke with Alexander and he is upset. He says he is trying to wrap his head around this situation, one of Jims phrases.
I asked him if he noticed that he was less stressed since we moved, and he said that maybe you are less stressed but I am not.
I asked if he could tell the difference, not being yelled at, worrying about what may happen, etc...
I find myself living in a whole other house just because I used to get yelled at....he said. I didn't mind getting yelled at he said.
My son HAS been less stressed. He is with him for the weekend, and this happens. He didn't mind getting yelled at, he is trying to wrap his head around what has happened.
I wan't to say I cannot believe this, but I can. He is Toxic Jim. Nothing but. To make a child feel that it is ok to be yelled at,,,
This hurts my heart. He ran up the stairs. He is so upset. I can't just not ask ?? and see how their weekend was, and this is what came out of my ??....
He has been fine....school has been 'cool' His favorite classes so far are Spanish and Science. How can 2 days back track him like this.
TJ is no good. What can I do? Right now there is nothing I can do. He will calm down, and be down in a few minutes for a hug.
This needs to go to mediation. On Saturday mornings I cannot budge him to get him to go to see tj, and when he comes home, he is a depressed child, full of worry.
Asking me when the court date is, because I asked the kids if they got the paper off the door. (Lindsay did, btw)
I saw someone else in Alexander tonight, and not til ths very instans, did I realize who it was.
My brother. This is how my brother was. At this very age. My father was not his father.
My mother was miserable...over my father. I loved them both. They argued. He belittled her, and my brothers and sisters, but not me. He did not belittle his 2 children from his first marriage.
He yelled at her, he yelled at them.
My brother, low self esteem, easily upset. I remember at this very age, my brother ran away from it all, on his bike, to my aunts house, three counties away.
I saw my brother in Alexander tonight. When he is upset, he holds in his anger until he no longer can, then excuses himself from the situation. This is what my brother does.
Why dont I see things. Why did seeing ALexander tonight trigger this? I sit with my eyebrows wrinkled up, just wondering.
So many things have come to light over this whole situation.
Alexander came down a minute ago, for his hug. As big and tall as he is, I grabbed him and sat him on my lap, and just held him tight. I told him how much I love him. I kissed his head and neck...over and over, just like if he was my little boy again.
He sat there and put his head against me. To tall for it to be on my shoulder...
I checked on his toe. looked good.
Why did my father do that to my mother? Do we chose men that are like our fathers? I never saw my father like that. I never really realized it all...or maybe I didn't want to.
I saw my father as loving and caring, that is what he was to me. He was not those other things.
Does Alexander think it is ok for the treatment he has been given because it is his father and he loves him? He must be so confused right now. I am. Thinking back to my childhood, now.
I think of one time in particular, my mother would always go to the basement after an arguement with my father. I went down there and she was in the laundry room crying.
Why are you crying Mommy, I said to her. I am ok she said. (that sounds familiar) Daddy wants to know if you want a chocolate milk shake, he is going to McDonalds. No. Are you sure you are ok? Yes Robyn. She was leaning on the washer with both arms and her head held down. I think I may have been 7 or 8.
I remember, my dad would always try and make things better by doing something for her, like it would make it better.
It doesn't make it better. When I saw her in the mirror that night, I knew that was it. When I saw the dispair, the desparation. i could not go on. I wish she had not gone on. She had so much living to do, even though she died so young, at 65.
They would have been better apart. Money? Me? What? I will not ever know, they are both gone.
We are better apart. We worked good last weekend, but this weekend, this whole past week he was a jerk. He was himself.
I feel badly for my kids, but I know they are better for it.
To hear your child say its ok to be treated that way.... it broke my heart and I felt pure hatrid for Jim. I know I cannot do that. I cant I cant. hatrid allows satan to work on your faith, and I will not allow it, not after my faith has brought me so far, I wont allow it.
I will be going to bed with a heavy heart tonight, filled with a past life of my childhood, my brothers face, and my son.
Lindsay seems to be doing well. I praise God for that. I really think I knew it would be Alexander... I knew that.
Robyn, I'm not surprised at Alexander's reaction to his life at this point. He is a sensitive child, and it sounds as though he hates the change for many reasons. I DO NOT TRUST TJ. I am certain he has verbally confused the children all weekend, possibly making Alexander feel guilty for leaving, or reinforcing for them that he has been the caretaker all these years. TJ just wants to be able to say you don't know what you're talking about, he IS good to his children...I can imagine both the children are confused by this twist of behavior. Let Alexander know that it's a confusing, uncomfortable time for all of you, but that he does not deserve to be yelled at all the time, and he should not allow anyone (TJ) to do that to him...the fact that Alexander feels it's OK to be yelled at is a sign of a child who has been verbally abused enough, that he's comfortable in that atmosphere...document this valuable conversation you had with your son.
I'm glad you asked Alexander about his being distracted during the phone call with you.
You might suggest that he go in another room, or call back when the talking stops ~ and you might bring up in mediation, that the kids be provided with a private place to speak with you when you call.
The guy is an emotional cretin ~ I'm with Windy (above-though can't rep her) ~ go prepared with typed sheets, stating clearly what you want changed...these kids shouldn't be with him at all, but if they must, not as often as they are.
I can't say it enough, "JIM IS AN IRRESPONSIBLE and CRUEL HUMAN BEING ~ AN EMOTIONAL, VERBAL and INTIMIDATING ABUSER." I WISH YOU FELT STRONG ENOUGH TO FIGHT FOR HIM TO ONLY HAVE MONITORED VISITS AT A PROFESSIONAL OFFICE WITH HIS CHILDREN. HIS INFLUENCE IS VERY DAMAGING TO YOU, MUCH LESS A YOUNGSTER. You need to speak to your lawyer ahead of time and let him know Alexander's reaction to the visits, and ask the lawyer what he feels he is missing for Th's meeting.
Rest easy, my dear, you are a wonderful mother, and part of doing damage control with the children at this time, is to help them learn a healthier way to expect to be treated...tough to do and not bad-mouth their father in the process. You and the kids are right where you would be, after years of enduring oppression & abuse...give it time and keep providing a stable, nurturing and loving environment for yourselves.
We are all up now, it is freezing downstairs again, so strange, I was cold upstairs as well, did not want to get out of bed. Made the kids lunches.
Alexander got up without much hesitation this morning, in a different mood. He says oh Mommy, you must be cold...LOL...I am sitting here like an old lady w my Tink cup of coffee and I have my pajamas on..reg pj long top, and I put flannel pants on and I have a sweatshirt jacket on.
Kalo stay away w your camera puleez!
MsV, I agree w you. All these years it has been ok for that treatment of Alexander and he thinks its ok, does he really feel stressed? Maybe the question should be..Did he really feel stressed? Up until this visit?
He just said I love you Mommy, and I just got a sweet warm kiss on the kiss fr Lindsay girl.
I didn't want to wake out of my dream this morning, the alarm went off forever it seemed, but for 15 minutes. Some dreams are good like that...
I will be documenting the conversation w Alexander as well as the phone call from Saturday night, and the kids letting me know, after I asked them why they were not talking to me, that it was because jim was talking to them during their conversations. RTJ
Rotten Toxic Jim does not deserve my wonderful children at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~
no more ink.....just my luck, ran low yesterday, now it wont print at all...
Last edited by Pikantari; 09-17-2007 at 04:08 AM..
Reason: addition
Good Morning Robyn,
Tough times are still here for you I see, but children are so resilient and Alexander will soon learn the eifference between love and yelling at you ok love...
You are doing great, better than great, keep documenting and soon this will be a bad dream.. The children will always need love and understanding from you for a long time as long as they see J so often. They may even need counseling, but thats OK, you are doing what is right for you and your family. It's funny when we leave a situation sometimes we think, OMG that was truely awful, we stay and are use to what we have. We don't know that it can be so much better until we leave. Please know I understnd this as I am in a job that everyone can see what it is doing to me but me...
Ohh MsV how wise you are!! Listen to what she's saying Robyn. This is just a small pebble in the road hun. I know it's hard to have A feel that way, it will get better, I promise. Probably after Thursday when TJ realizes that things aren't going to go his way. I would stress again about the every other weekend thing. Those kids are both so confused right now and love their parents dearly. I would suggest, in front of the mediator and/or attorneys, (even though its hard to enforce) that no negative things should be said in front of the kids regarding the other parent. It's so hard for their minds to be wrapped around all our adult BS. They just know that their world has been torn apart, and probably feel like they have to pick sides. They don't!! It's not their argument or battle. Just keep reinforcing to both of them that you and TJ both love them, that this has nothing to do with them and keep on being the wonderful mom that you are.
Good morning Robyn - Alexander has been "conditioned" (much in the same way you were growing up) to believe that what TJ does (in your case it was your dad) is normal. That doesn't go away overnight. I really and truly believe that this past weekend TJ pulled out all the stops to try to get the kids to realize that the way you WERE living was normal. Alexander is confused. That's normal for a child whose parents are going through a divorce, even if one parent isn't Jekyll/Hyde. Thankfully, he knows he can talk to you about it, even in bits and pieces. (Alexander also has puberty and hormones to deal with now, so it's a double-edged sword, so to speak).
Does Alexander like to read? You might want to ask the town librarian if there is a GOOD book for his age group that talks about divorce, verbal and emotional abuse, etc. - something he could read and understand and realize he is not alone in a lot of his feelings. Also, I wonder if your brother would be willing to talk to Alexander about his experiences growing up - that would also help Alexander to see that it's not okay to be treated the way TJ treats him and that he can grow up to NOT be like TJ (that may also be in the back of Alexander's mind - he knows what TJ does/did was wrong, and he's afraid he will turn out like him, and that scares him but he doesn't know what to do about it).
The "change" in Alexander when he came home last night....especially his comment that he is not less stressed now. That comes from being with TJ - either having it drummed into his head by TJ that Alexander is more stressed, or it may be that being back with TJ is, as odd as it sounds, comfortable for him - it's what he knows. Totally breaking "free" of the known to the unknown is stressful - that could actually be the source of his "stress" - along with not wanting to believe his father is the way he is...does that make any sense at all?
Alexander is a teenager and with being a teenager, even in a happy and harmonious home, comes "teenage angst" - he's going to have some mood swings/shifts no matter what. What you saw in him last night was his feeling that it's okay to be yelled at (conditioning) on top of his normal teenage swings and knowing deep down that it is NOT okay to be yelled at constantly and live in fear. I would suspect you will be seeing more of the "teenage turmoil" down the road.
Alexander is going to be fine, but he may need some help in sorting through things. He is going to be stressed - new school, new friends, new living situation - this is all good stress, but stress nonetheless - add in TJ "pulling" him in one direction and there's more stress. Does his school have a counselor? It might be a good idea to ask the counselor to "touch base" with Alexander periodically - asking how he likes the new school, how's it going, etc.
In any case, it will all work out. Things TJ is doing and has done will blow up in his face, it's just going to take some time - hopefully Thursday he will show his true colors and the every weekend visits will be a thing of the past and some semblance of normalcy will fall into place. In order for co-parenting to work, both parents need to be "on the same page"....TJ is not on the same page as you and that's where Alexander's stress/confusion comes in - he sees/feels what it is like in your new home and likes it - he is being made to feel guilty about liking it when he is with TJ.
Hope this ramble makes sense....I haven't had MY coffee yet this morning!
Such good advise!! You all are so encouraging, I think you all should get together a collectively write a book!! lol Where were you when I was going through this??
Robyn - This is the weekend before the mediation session - TJ was trying to pull out all the stops, so to speak, so the kids will think good thoughts. Of course he can't remember the abuse - he doesn't see it that way. To TJ, the abuse he put you and the kids through was "normal" and most likely directly related to his life growing up. Does TJ remember the b'day party? Of course he doesn't, he is projecting what he would have LIKED it to have been like.....almost as if he had watched a movie with a wonderful sweet ending.
Continue to use this anger to sustain you until and thru Thursday. As many others have said, Thursday is the day to bring all your info to the table. Let TJ speak first, just listen to him. When he is finished, bring out all your papers and documents, including your "want list" - on that list should be that YOU have the kids every other weekend.
If at all possible, and again, I don't know how the mediation works, exactly in your area - Hand the things to the mediator and just say......This is what I would like from the separation (with your "want list")...Next....This is what I have paid for during our marriage.....These are our last (fill in the blanks) years of our tax returns to document our separate incomes......This is the abuse that has gone on during our marriage, continuing to this day.....
You decide what order you want to present things (or ask others here for suggestions) - if you have everything in writing, don't say much except "this is" - it's going to drive TJ nuts - he's going to want to see everything of course, but make him ask the mediator, not you.
This will hopefully accomplish at least a couple of things - You will have given the mediator a whole bunch of documentation to go through, things I would be willing to bet TJ would NEVER think of you doing AND, it may even provide the "trigger" for TJ to fly off the handle and let the mediator see his true colors.
You coming in with all your documentation gets rid of any "he said/she said" arguments, you have it all on paper, including the night he and his mommy tried to have you locked up....and it's going to drive TJ up the wall! <g>
I can't say enough about the good, solid, intelligent advice that you folks give. Robyn, windchimes is spot on here.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
