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You are only half correct. You may not HAVE to have sex with a woman before marriage to know if she will be good in bed or not but... ... if you like sex, and if she likes sex... why the heck not have sex? Why wait? Really, tell me why?
H
That isnt the thread topic. Thats a topic for another forum. Start a new thread on that topic and maybe I'll answer your question. Lets not allow this thread to go off topic.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
I only know what I read. I can't be in every home. I've read it in far too many different places to doubt it. Why do you?
Because there is zero data to support it. The only data is regarding filings, and filing /= initiation. That is some men's rights advocacy (a term I never heard of until this board) mental twistings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
That just doesn't make any sense. If you are in love, attracted to them... you must be right for each other. Or could be with more discipline or more at stake!!
What? No, loving someone and attracted to them is just a beginning. You can't will a loving happy relationship to exist. Yes, they require work, but work is not enough. I've been in love with a few people in my life, I still love them, we're still good friends, there is still attraction, we weren't right for a lifetime commitment together by any means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
I did marry a peer. And we were not in love. In 33% of divorces the woman significantly out-earns the male. Only in 5% of divorces do women have to provide any kind of financial support to an ex-husband. So so much for being financial equals and expecting that that will save you if things crash and burn.
Why did you marry someone you were not in love with? First big mistake.
And if you out earned them by a great deal, you were not an economic peer. Second big mistake.
Neither do I and in my case it would be for an intimate relationship with a woman I would want for a wife. I have had plenty of opportunities over the years but there was no love, commitment or any emotional intimacy. None were marriage material.
I agree on this too. If we can wait for marriage that would be great but that scenario is not required. When we are in love and committed I am not waiting for marriage as by the time we are being intimate that has already been established.
Semantics. You are waiting for marriage by not finding women sexually interesting unless you also deem them marryable. My SO's best friend is smart, intelligent (is that redundant?), pretty and fit. She draws (drew!) guys like a magnet and has had hundreds of dates in just the time that my SO has been her best friend. No love, no committment or any emotional intimacy. Some guilt tinged sex in there, but not much, not often... wanted a family in the worst way. I say wanted. She will be turning 50. Even the adoption boards are giving her a hard time. She WASTED her childbearing years, she WASTED middle age, chasing some ephemeral notion of what was "marriage material". My SO never would have though in a jillion years that she would be the one to find love and happiness first... or at all. She is not working with nearly what her friend is physically, but she is working with a heck of a lot more maturity, introspection and knowledge of what is important in another person. Very much FWIW... you're wasting time... you will regret it. Ignore me at your peril. There is nothing sadder than someone who has finally realized that they have exceeded their "sell by date". You will know when that happens when "opportunities" stop presenting themselves.
Oh... while we are on the subject... marriage? It may be none of my business but... how old are you? Marriage is a socio-economic construct for the distribution of property and the financial protection of children. It isn't even necessary for the protection of children anymore since we have the technology of paternity testing and Child Support Enforcement. Marriage is hardly essential to the success, financial or otherwise of any relationship in the 21st Century! But... I get it... we are creatures of our indoctrination. It feels good to be married instead of "living together". But don't get crazy. If you are 45... maybe been married before... or not... I wouldn't leave a relationship because it didn't look like a likely marriage opportunity, just saying. Anyone who can put up with me, I'll likewise look out for and I don't need a marriage license to make me do it. If you want to get married. Get married. That is very easy. If you want to be with someone compatible... find them... if you can't, its on you! We are all different and unique but not that different and unique. You are not meant to spend years and years and years searching for "The One". "If you can't be with The One you love.... love the one you're with". Exercise some self discipline and maturity, and look beyond petty differences of taste and make something happen. Or not, but don't tell me about "will happen"... it either happens or it never happens. It will never happen for my SO's friend. It's sad because she is still very much hoping it will.
There's a huge element of luck when it comes to finding the right person. I got lucky late in life (I married at age 50) but it was worth the wait as far as I'm concerned. It's a bit pessimistic for you to proclaim that it will "never happen" for your SO's friend. Maybe it will never happen but my MIL married a man she met at her senior living facility at the age of 84. They are happy as clams. So there you go.
P.S. I'm pretty sure they tested the goods before marrying, but I try hard not to think about it.
There's a huge element of luck when it comes to finding the right person.
I agree. It's much too random a process at present, to be efficient. I aim to change all that when I become Lord Emperor. Everybody goes home a winner in my Utopia. Short, tall, rich or poor there will be a national database that everyone is registered in. If you want someone in your life or if someone wants you in their life you will not be able to refuse or be refused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflyfish
I got lucky late in life (I married at age 50) but it was worth the wait as far as I'm concerned.
Well.. if you say so. Was it marriage that was worth the wait or finally meeting/being with your husband and... how are they different for being your husband vs a domestic partner say...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflyfish
It's a bit pessimistic for you to proclaim that it will "never happen" for your SO's friend.
My SO's friend has very high expectations of a marriage. Traditional ones, dhildren were a must and the primary impetus. At 50... ... fertility science has come a ways but... ... even if IVF or some other technique could work for her... she needs to find a guy on board with the whole concept. That would be someone in the close to $200K/yr income bracket. These are the guys she goes for but they are quite able to find 25 year olds if they want children and 35 year olds if they just want to be players, and she simply cannot compete anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflyfish
Maybe it will never happen but my MIL married a man she met at her senior living facility at the age of 84. They are happy as clams. So there you go.
People can meet and perhaps marry in their senior years but they are simply acting out their indoctrintation, there isn't any social need for two seniors to marry. Children are not an issue, neither are inheritance or asset management. Companionship and love do not require the blessing of the State, or the Church for that matter. There wasn't any social need for my second wife and I to marry. We were doing fine as fornicators for eight years until her promotion. She has by far the better insurance benefits but they are taxed for domestic partners. Like hundreds of dollars a month. I have already been married, so has she... twice. I have grown children. There isn't much I haven't seen. So... call me flinty eyed and unromantic... my SO is less so, and she hopes that we will "marry" in a traditional ceremony in addition to the legal one. Civilization has a lot to answer for.
I agree. It's much too random a process at present, to be efficient. I aim to change all that when I become Lord Emperor. Everybody goes home a winner in my Utopia. Short, tall, rich or poor there will be a national database that everyone is registered in. If you want someone in your life or if someone wants you in their life you will not be able to refuse or be refused.
Long live the Lord Emperor Leisesturm!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Well.. if you say so. Was it marriage that was worth the wait or finally meeting/being with your husband and... how are they different for being your husband vs a domestic partner say...
It was both. My relationship experiences in my 20s, 30s, and 40s left me feeling nothing but discouraged, bitter and jaded. I saw little value in having a man in my life on anything but the most superficial level. For many years my intention was to remain single (and celibate) while having a stable of men perpetually wooing me and showering me with gifts for the rest of my life, while I floated around my beautiful home in silk gowns admiring the bouquets of flowers and jewelry men would offer me. LOL.
My plan worked marvelously well for years until I met the man who would become my husband. He was unlike any other man I'd ever known. And he refused to play the part I'd cast him in. After courting me like it was the year 1940 for six months, he insisted on marriage or nothing so I had to make a choice. A domestic partnership was not an option, he believes they are lame and for people who don't have enough courage to walk their talk. He is a "go big or go home" type of man. I love that about him.
I was scared out of my mind (it was too soon, I thought) but even more scared to not have him in my life. He was/is the most extraordinary man; the type of man I didn't think existed. And he loves me like no other man has ever loved me. I knew that it was a once in a lifetime chance and that it was something that everyone seeks but few people find. In short, he was a godsend. Only a fool would turn something like that away.
In my storied past I've been in domestic partnerships that failed miserably. They felt very different than my marriage does. Partly because of the amazing man I married, but there's a deeply felt emotional aspect to being married that I hadn't recognized or appreciated before experiencing it. Perhaps it's merely "indoctrination" as you say, but it feels much deeper than that to me. After all, I'm a child of the 70s and grew up believing in free love, sex and all that. No more.
I don't want to preach, but marriage really has been a beautiful surprise to me. It was a leap of faith and I stunned all of my friends and family. Our marriage is a satisfying partnership that has completely changed my core being and my world view. I'm a different person now. A better person. I don't know what else to say except that I've never been so happy, so grateful, and I'm a very lucky lady.
Last edited by Butterflyfish; 01-21-2015 at 04:41 PM..
It was both. My relationship experiences in my 20s, 30s, and 40s left me feeling nothing but discouraged, bitter and jaded. I saw little value in having a man in my life on anything but the most superficial level. For many years my intention was to remain single (and celibate) while having a stable of men perpetually wooing me and showering me with gifts for the rest of my life, while I floated around my beautiful home in silk gowns admiring the bouquets of flowers and jewelry men would offer me. LOL.
My plan worked marvelously well for years until I met the man who would become my husband. He was unlike any other man I'd ever known. And he refused to play the part I'd cast him in. After courting me like it was the year 1940 for six months, he insisted on marriage or nothing so I had to make a choice. A domestic partnership was not an option, he believes they are lame and for people who don't have enough courage to walk the talk. He is a "go big or go home" type of man. I love that about him.
I was scared out of my mind but even more scared to not have him in my life. He was/is the most extraordinary man; the type of man I didn't think existed. And he loves me like no other man has ever loved me. I knew that it was a once in a lifetime chance and that it was something that everyone seeks but few people find. In short, he was a godsend.
In my storied past I've been in domestic partnerships that failed miserably. They felt very different than my marriage does. Partly because of the amazing man I married, but there's a deeply felt emotional aspect to being married that I hadn't recognized or appreciated before experiencing it. Perhaps it's merely "indoctrination" as you say, but it feels much deeper than that to me. After all, I'm a child of the 70s and grew up believing in free love, sex and all that. No more.
I don't want to preach, but my marriage really has been a beautiful surprise to me, a satisfying partnership that has completely changed my core being and my world view. I'm a different person now. A better person. I don't know what else to say except that I've never been so happy, so grateful, and I'm a very lucky lady.
Man, if you had all that, I envy you. Most have done wonders for confidence that tons of men were enticed by you. lol Congrats on your marriage. Sounds like you really are lucky.
Man, if you had all that, I envy you. Most have done wonders for confidence that tons of men were enticed by you. lol Congrats on your marriage. Sounds like you really are lucky.
To clarify, when I was younger, many of the men I dated were just starting their careers and struggling. I didn't often see big bouquets or lavish gifts. It wasn't until I was in my 40s that the men really came on strong with the material offerings. For the record, I was exaggerating about the jewelry. Yes, it was offered at times but I didn't accept expensive gifts; I feel that's it wrong when I knew they wouldn't last more than 6 dates. I just wanted to enjoy their companionship, I didn't really want to see anyone get hurt so I always ended things after 4 to 6 dates. Just because I had options doesn't mean that I was mature or wise enough enough to manage those options. Nope.
Thinking back, I think was really emotionally immature.
To clarify, when I was younger, many of the men I dated were just starting their careers and struggling. I didn't often see big bouquets or lavish gifts. It wasn't until I was in my 40s that the men really came on strong with the material offerings. For the record, I was exaggerating about the jewelry. Yes, it was offered at times but I didn't accept expensive gifts; I feel that's it wrong when I knew they wouldn't last more than 6 dates. I just wanted to enjoy their companionship, I didn't really want to see anyone get hurt so I always ended things after 4 to 6 dates. Just because I had options doesn't mean that I was mature or wise enough enough to manage those options. Nope.
Thinking back, I think was really emotionally immature.
Yeah, I shouldn't assume too much. But sounded like as you got older, you managed to attract some nice / decent guys, even if they weren't a match. Before meeting your great husband. Congrats! The guys I have a record of attracting are the slobs, and creepers. But changing my image, may help with that. Somewhat And moving.
You are waiting for marriage by not finding women sexually interesting unless you also deem them marryable.
Nope, this is not true and quite the opposite in fact. Commitment, deep emotional intimacy and bonding have not been there yet. I am willing to wait for the right person and of course there are too many who will not. Whatever floats your boat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
It will never happen for my SO's friend. It's sad because she is still very much hoping it will.
What you may perceive as her “wasted” life may have been just fine for her. There is nothing wrong with waiting for the right person if that is what some folks choose to do. There is no get married by “deadline” schedule everyone has to adhere to, in fact there is no formula. Everyone and every situation is unique and different. She could very easily meet her special someone tomorrow, next week or this summer regardless of her age. It isn’t over for her or anyone until you’re pushing up daisies or she becomes a chronic pessimist and just gives up.
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And moving.
