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Hmmmm. Sounds like she has needs that you aren't meeting. And she has tried to bring this to your attention. And youarenotlistening. Your "out" on not meeting her needs is that you a) aren't a counsellor and b) can't sit down and do an hour long session.
Really?? You aren't a counsellor?? Most spouses aren't. And you can't spare an hour a day to listen to your wife??? Really???
Well, a few observations that might be useful to you if you are sincere in saving your marriage are:
a) she needs someone who will listen to her.
b) that responsibility as her husband is yours - not a "counsellor" and not "some female friends".
c) she WILL have those needs met - if not by you, then by this guy on the sly, or by another guy in the future.
Those are your choices. Meet your wife's needs or be replaced by someone who will.
Emotional affairs are FAR more dangerous to the integrity of a marriage than sexual ones. Women seldom leave marriages solely for sex. They DO leave for someone who will listen to them and love them and will take time for them. And don't think 1400 miles is a barrier to that happening. I know women that have moved countries to be with their emotional affair partner.
These are very astute words and you should heed them, OP.
I am also willing to bet that you do not know everything, or even half, of what this emotional affair is about. Your wife is in love with someone else. There is sex involved (even if it is in the mind) and you are standing around impotently trying to rationalize why the situation is not that bad.
I suggest going to a marriage building website and posting your story there, I guarantee you will immediatlely flush out a dozen male respondents who were standing in your shoes at one time who will tell you how it all turned out. The stories will not be pretty.
I'm a woman and I can tell you that she's emotionally checked out of the relationship and you two are living as roomates. I've been there, so I know what I'm talking about.
Get a lawyer and tell her to get out and go live with her "counselor" GL
Well last night we had a pretty big argument and I mentioned her relationship with the friend.
Last Sunday we agreed to work on our marriage and to have a full month were it's just us - no going to the dads, no having sisters over, etc, to start building those barriers and to isolate our marriage from them and work on us. This Sunday (a week later), she informs me she's going out to eat with the sister while I'm not home. I got upset, said its been only a week and she was already breaking our agreement, and wtf etc.
She got mad and said she didn't think it would be an issue since I wouldn't be home, I said that's not the point, etc etc etc.
I also brought up the friend. I said it's been 3 years and I've tolerated them talking nightly for so long, had it thrown in my face repeatedly, and I'm getting sick of it. That she's a married woman, he's a single guy, and she's letting him interfere with her marriage. And that I'm done with it, and if she has trouble deciding which relationship is harder to end, then I'm taking it as a sign that I need to move on with my life.
She said there was no trouble, that she wanted me, but that he was like a counselor to her and that I was not.
I said BS he's not trained, neither am I, he's just a single guy who has a crush on her and is interfering in our marriage and she's letting him, if she wants a counselor go see a professional.
She said I'm arrogant and a narcissist and hard to talk to regarding her problems, I again reminded her I'm not a counselor and there are certain issues I can't help her with, and the fact I can't sit down and do an hour long session like the other guy apparently can, doesn't mean I'm ignoring her. I suggested she find some female friends to vent to, or get into counseling.
I told her I wanted to feel like she was choosing to spend time with me over her family or this guy for once, instead of dumping me to do stuff with them.
So that's where we are.
I feel a bit bad telling her to cut her ties with him, she doesn't really have many friends (neither does he) and I don't feel there's a threat of her leaving me for him and they'll likely never see another again as it is (he's 1,400 miles away). I don't even think she's attracted to him, I think she's just flattered, they've known one another for a number of years, and they make each other laugh etc.
But then - he did send her the poem. My brains telling me all that's going on is she's leading him on, he's 3 years into pining for her, and it's time either they end it between them or between me.
Call me a fool etc, but - is telling her she can't talk to him the right thing to do? And how? Does she tell him "bye" etc or block him,..and what if he ends up emailing her one night, or she sends him an email or something one night?
Should I expect her to be gung ho and "We're going to save our marriage yay!" as she ends the 3 year relationship with him?
And she suggested marriage counseling, so that's in our future.
Anyway, talking about this is much easier than doing it, and it might seem logical and simple "choose the marriage or him," but when you're actually speaking it, it's quite different.
She's not having an emotional affair. She's having an affair, even if she isn't doing the deed yet. And she's throwing out all the accusations for a reason. One, a good defense is a good offense, Two, she's giving herself permission to do it, essentially telling herself that you forced into an affair.
But, as Stan said, there are two sides to every story. The big fat clues you've provided shows that you're being kind of a pompous, suffocating control freak by telling her that she can't see anyone, friends or family, for a month. Really? Are you just trying to destroy what's left of your marriage? I mean, you've already posted once about possibly withholding sex from her unless the two of you move away from her family, denying her the opportunity to have children. Buddy, I think you have serious, serious issues that, if allowed to fester, will turn you into an emotional abuser (One of the red flags is, by the way, attempting to sever contacts with the spouse's friends and family). I just don't think you realize how creepy you're beginning to sound. I typically don't blame the spouse when someone has an affair, but your accounts tell me that you've made it darned easy for her to do it. With your controlling behavior, you practically made the reservations at the NoTell Motel for the poor woman.
And how hard is it for you to just listen to her talk about her problems? Women who talk about their problems don't necessarily want you to solve them. They just want you to listen. No matter how busy I am, I always make time every day to talk to my wife. It's just good sense. And that line about your "not being a counselor" is about the lamest thing I've ever heard. It's weak cheese. It's cowardice. It's an abdication of your responsibilities as a supportive partner in the marriage. It's essentially saying to your wife, "I am so emotionally clueless that I can only talk about things that interest me, namely things that don't make me uncomfortable." In essence, you're only available to her in limited ways, which is practically inviting her to step out on you. And, to be honest, I can't blame her if she does. Right now, I bet she has friends who are urging her to do it. Because he's the only guy in her life who is actually talking to her, rather than handing down mandates.
On to the guy. A man sending a woman poetry is a man who thinks he's about to close the deal, whether it means getting her in the sack or getting her to leave you. I'd tell her that this is behavior way beyond the bounds of a normal friendship and that you are really uncomfortable with it. Then if he continues to pursue, I'd have a nice little face-to-face meeting with the guy. Just stroll into his office one day and close the door. No threats. No violence. You don't even have to swear, raise your voice, or call him names. Simply a discussion of what he's doing and how he's getting into the middle of you marriage. It is likely that the guy is a bit of a coward and he won't do it again. Sure, it will make your wife mad, and it's a bit of a Hail Mary, but you've allowed this situation to go on so long that it's about to undermine your marriage.
So there you go. One confused wife, one emotionally unavailable husband who can't seem to get it quite right, and a guy who's waiting in the wings to exploit the situation to his advantage. I think I'd do something about it by working on your marriage, working on yourself, and taking a long, hard look at how you're treating the most important person in your life. You've been a fool, and now it's time to stop.
I've followed a few of your threads.. and i can say that I have been in a similar situation as you.. here's what I did to get back to good.
I stopped questioning her about where, what and when. I stopped getting mad about petty things that I could not control. If she said I am going here or there afer work, etc.. i simply smiled and said, have fun.. if she asked me to go with her I always said yes.. I never pass up time to be with her... but if not I simply did my thing and if she was there, great.. if not.. great. It was hard at first to push the impulse I had aside but once i got past the intial strain.. life is better..
Just be happy with or without your wife... eventually she will come closer to you or not.. but trying to forceable pull her closer will only push her away. either way, your happy.. just be happy, do things that make you happy with or without her.
Things are great now between us. Is it like it was when we first met?, NO. Never will be but that's ok..
Anyway, she cancelled the plans with her sister today and I was able to stay home. We ended up spending the day together and actually had fun! Her guy friend was waiting on AIM for her during their usual time of course, but she didn't sign on and actually put away her laptop. We watched TV on the couch and cuddled.
I guess 2012 is the year of fixing the marriage or watching it crumble.
This is GREAT! Your wife is craving attention, so give her some! And I see you did.
A suggestion from a woman's point of view. . . when she wants to talk, let her talk. Just hold her and listen. Women listen, men want to fix things. Don't necessarily jump in and offer suggestions/solutions to what she's talking about, just listen. She needs to feel that she can tell you anything and everything.
Good luck! And I'm glad to see someone so willing to work on their marriage instead of just calling the lawyer and walking away.
Well last night we had a pretty big argument and I mentioned her relationship with the friend.
Last Sunday we agreed to work on our marriage and to have a full month were it's just us - no going to the dads, no having sisters over, etc, to start building those barriers and to isolate our marriage from them and work on us. This Sunday (a week later), she informs me she's going out to eat with the sister while I'm not home. I got upset, said its been only a week and she was already breaking our agreement, and wtf etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe
The sister stuff is a whole other issue, but the goal is to establish boundaries where non existed before with her family and to spend time on our relationship,..for us to have date nights, as opposed to free nights = dinner at dads house.
Why is your wife not allowed to see her family if you are not going to be there to spend time with her? Is she supposed to sit in an empty house by herself? I can totally understand asking her to spend free time together as dates with you, but if you aren't there then why are you restricting her? Have you considered that if you try to cut her off from her family at the same time as you try to cut her off from her best friend you are isolating her and setting her up for failure?
Why is your wife not allowed to see her family if you are not going to be there to spend time with her? Is she supposed to sit in an empty house by herself? I can totally understand asking her to spend free time together as dates with you, but if you aren't there then why are you restricting her? Have you considered that if you try to cut her off from her family at the same time as you try to cut her off from her best friend you are isolating her and setting her up for failure?
I was wondering this too. I thought the point was to establish boundaries with them as a couple. I doubt her seeing her sister on a random night the OP isn't there is going to affect their marriage that much. I can understand him wanting to steer clear of family get-togethers for a while, especially if they happen often.
It's more complex than that. I don't think you understand that an "emotional affair" is just a friendship without boundaries.
It doesn't start out that way, and he was my friend too and we hung out and stuff, but add a year or two, add "innocent jokes" not being stopped and allowed to progress, and you get to where they ended up (which I gave detail about in the other post).
It settled down the past 8 or 9 months or so, and the amount of time they devoted to talking greatly decreased, and her and I spent more time together.
The "venting" about me (and him "God, I can't believe you stay with him...") died down.
So it's a more insidious than flat out cheating and has an innocent origin.
Yes, I think it's time for him to move on with his life. My wife isn't available, and him holding out for her either needs to become reality now, or it needs to end.
Their relationship isn't what it use to be, but they still talk regularly and I was fine with them remaining friends (but with limits..), until I found his recent poem to her this past week.
It was goofy, but it was about a character distinctly her, had a "chorus" section about them having sex and metaphors for body fluids mixing, and then ended with the sadness of her moving on with her life and him not being in it.
He's met me, talked to me numerous times the past 3 years, we hung out and tried to be friends, talked about our hobbies together etc - and that's what he's going to write to my wife?
I can rationalize the stuff that went on in the past (because it's largely over) - but why is he continuing to send her that stuff?
I suppose I don't mind them remaining friends, but with hindsight now, and him showing he can't respect our marital boundaries - I think it needs to be addressed.
The sister stuff is a whole other issue, but the goal is to establish boundaries where non existed before with her family and to spend time on our relationship,..for us to have date nights, as opposed to free nights = dinner at dads house.
Anyway, she cancelled the plans with her sister today and I was able to stay home. We ended up spending the day together and actually had fun! Her guy friend was waiting on AIM for her during their usual time of course, but she didn't sign on and actually put away her laptop. We watched TV on the couch and cuddled.
I guess 2012 is the year of fixing the marriage or watching it crumble.
I can see where when you are trying to justify everything why it would be complex. When you are not listening... To her or us where is would be bewildering.
Continue to make excuses and let it manifest itself into something far worse.
Or listen to our advise here and walk away. If you are looking for affirmation, it is easy to ignore or make excuses.
Better idea, cease with the cranium rectal inversion. Look at the situation as it really is. Your wife has resigned herself from the marriage. Don't prolong the ordeal. One day you will find them going at it in your bed. I'd venture to say it might have already happened. I know your wife denies it, here is a news flash: people lie.
Why is your wife not allowed to see her family if you are not going to be there to spend time with her? Is she supposed to sit in an empty house by herself? I can totally understand asking her to spend free time together as dates with you, but if you aren't there then why are you restricting her? Have you considered that if you try to cut her off from her family at the same time as you try to cut her off from her best friend you are isolating her and setting her up for failure?
This. I can only imagine what would happen if I told MrsCPG she couldn't have any contact with friends or family for a month. The imagined aftermath includes an iron skillet being forcefully applied to my skull.
Seriously, however, isolating a person from her friends and family is one of the hallmarks of spousal abuse, both physical and emotional. The OP would be wise to examine his behavior and actions in an honest way, one that does not include wholesale rationalization.
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