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In some languages there are 3 ways or more of just saying the word "you", depending on the social situation and perceived "social rank" or whatever. If you choose the wrong one, you've got a problem. There is no way around it; you have to pick one, and pick the right one, even just to say "How are you?". Too familiar--disrespectful. Too formal--perceived as a smartass or non-friend. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that!
I speak many different languages, and all of them have different "you" forms, with the exception of English, American Sign Language, and Brazilian Portuguese. I'm so glad that I spend most of my time speaking the two languages that don't require me to make the choice (English and ASL). I know some people in my life now that have a language in common with me that makes the distinction, and I have to be honest--I avoid practicing those languages with them for the sole reason that I would have no idea which pronoun to use! Lol.
I know some people in my life now that have a language in common with me that makes the distinction, and I have to be honest--I avoid practicing those languages with them for the sole reason that I would have no idea which pronoun to use! Lol.
Well, I was uncomfortable with this at first in this country and still am to some extent. I don't feel I should be on a first-name basis with people who are much older than I am and way higher in the hierarchy, let's say. The only people who managed to retain some respect in this area that come to my mind are medical doctors, judges, and police officers, I believe. There may be others, but they didn't come to my mind right now.
Well, I was uncomfortable with this at first in this country and still am to some extent. I don't feel I should be on a first-name basis with people who are much older than I am and way higher in the hierarchy, let's say. The only people who managed to retain some respect in this area that come to my mind are medical doctors, judges, and police officers, I believe. There may be others, but they didn't come to my mind right now.
It's not that I would pick the informal every time with the people I know. It's just that I wouldn't know which one to pick. We've developed our relationship in a language that doesn't require us to choose, so I wouldn't know where to start in those other languages. I hope that makes sense.
I don't even know what to call my professors because I know some of them prefer first name, some prefer last name, and yet in order to get their attention, in Deaf culture (I go to a Deaf school), you just wave. So they've never really established their preference and I've never had to pick one, and never gotten any sort of hint as to their preference. On top of that, in Deaf culture, you risk offending just as much by being too cold and formal as you do by getting too personal and informal in many cultures.
Even within this thread, something like the term "girl" has different meanings for different posters. Some posters mentioned hearing "boys" in reference to men. That's already a different cultural standard than what I'm used to, and we're talking about one country and one language.
In some parts of the U.S., "ma'am" is standard, and in other parts, it's considered offensive. So for the people who would shy away from "girl", would they use a term like "ma'am" instead? The answer to that varies greatly, even within the U.S., within the English language.
So in other languages and other cultures, you can only imagine how much variety there is in terms of level of formality expected.
It's not that I would pick the informal every time with the people I know. It's just that I wouldn't know which one to pick. We've developed our relationship in a language that doesn't require us to choose, so I wouldn't know where to start in those other languages. I hope that makes sense.
I don't even know what to call my professors because I know some of them prefer first name, some prefer last name, and yet in order to get their attention, in Deaf culture (I go to a Deaf school), you just wave. So they've never really established their preference and I've never had to pick one, and never gotten any sort of hint as to their preference. On top of that, in Deaf culture, you risk offending just as much by being too cold and formal as you do by getting too personal and informal in many cultures.
Even within this thread, something like the term "girl" has different meanings for different posters. Some posters mentioned hearing "boys" in reference to men. That's already a different cultural standard than what I'm used to, and we're talking about one country and one language.
In some parts of the U.S., "ma'am" is standard, and in other parts, it's considered offensive. So for the people who would shy away from "girl", would they use a term like "ma'am" instead? The answer to that varies greatly, even within the U.S., within the English language.
So in other languages and other cultures, you can only imagine how much variety there is in terms of level of formality expected.
Right on! This is a perfect answer, in my opinion. My question was sincere, and I know the answer isn't easy. Let's be a little slower to take offense?
Right on! This is exactly what I was getting at. My question was sincere, and I know the answer isn't easy. Let's be a little slower to take offense?
Just to clarify, I'm not offended by anything you said, or the premise of the thread in general, and I did understand your question as sincere.
Being called "girl" is something that's highly contextual. I think within my social circle and culture, in most contexts, being called "girl" would generally be mildly offensive, or at the very least, not go unnoticed.
nim, I think you said things, very well expressed, that others (including me) couldn't put into words as well as you did. I'm not saying everyone will agree you're right. What you have done is expressed very well what you think and you are very observant.
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