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I too welcome the equality, but does it have to come at the cost of being truly romantic? Listen to pop songs these days, there isn't even a shred of romance. In the 90s there was talk of love, at least, but these days not even that.
You have a choice not to listen to those songs. Just because romance doesn't exist in the songs doesn't mean it's dead IRL. Didn't you have a whole thread on this topic earlier this year?
The problem seems to be that things have improved for women (considerably fewer get beaten to a bloody pulp or killed by an alcoholic husband, no way out due to virtually no divorce), and the rest of the world (men) are still catching up. This doesn't mean life is peachy-keen for women, life itself is a messy thing. But at least they're no longer chained to someone for life they don't love. In the 50's, middle class women had college educations, but were bored out of their skulls being babysitters for kids, and maids & cooks for their husbands. Working class women had to both work and somehow care for kids & husband. There was no daycare, I don't know how they did it. Helped each other out, and ran informal daycares in their homes, I guess. Domestic violence is now a crime. Didn't used to be; the husband had the full right to beat up his wife or rape her. Every era has its challenges. And an improved life and loosening of the rules for women also helps men. Custody is no longer automatically given to the mother, even if she's mentally ill.
When A guy points out the obvious that the Womens Lib movement was mostly a failure , the females get rabid and declare "He is romanticizing the past"...When a poster goes on a rant about horrible things that still commonly happen today, that womans lib hasnt solved she is just speaking her mind. A woman brought me in to this world, I have the great respect for females and what they do in this world and for our society, but I don't think in my almost 40 years on this planet that I ever figured out or understand what flows through many of your minds!
Because of women's lib I'm allowed to be in a career I love. I will be forever grateful for my foremothers paving the way for me.
Yes, those things still happen today, but there are resources to help these people instead of just throwing them on the street to fend for themselves. Abuse will never be 'solved' but as long as we can help people (men AND women AND children) get away from that abuse instead of being blamed for it and ostrasized I'd say we're doing a pretty good job.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey
Maybe she thought she couldn't make it out there 'on her own'? My Grandparents finally split up after nearly 50 years of marriage a few years back after years of verbal and emotional abuse by my Grandfather (he's much better now though) and it's been very tough for her. I just don't think she was ready emotionally to go at it on her own after living the majority of her life with my Grandfather. Hell, I'm super independent and it was tough for me to leave my ex after we'd been living together for 3 years, even though I knew it was for the best. I can't imagine 50 years.
Yes I suppose such situations would seem odd to modern minds. But as you know divorce was frowned upon back then, even among oldies. And often it was a marriage of convenience. My grandfather passed away in 2004 - actually it's kind of sad I never knew him well, as he had Alzheimer's in his later years, but afaik the two of them never even 'made up' although maybe they did and nobody told me.
I can't directly relate, but my sister is in a similar situation. Sometimes saying goodbye can be hard, even if hate their guts!
Because of women's lib I'm allowed to be in a career I love. I will be forever grateful for my foremothers paving the way for me.
Yes, those things still happen today, but there are resources to help these people instead of just throwing them on the street to fend for themselves. Abuse will never be 'solved' but as long as we can help people (men AND women AND children) get away from that abuse instead of being blamed for it and ostrasized I'd say we're doing a pretty good job.
Right. Smittyjohn, read my post above JJ's, too. The women's movement has made tremendous progress. Just because men still abuse women doesn't mean it hasn't. If you're so concerned about progress, start a men's movement to raise the awareness of other men about domestic violence and about sharing responsibilities in the home.
Maybe I am, but we shouldn't always act like things get better over time, progressively. That's the mistake both conservatives and liberals both make. An intelligent person can see we've changed, for better or worse, with new benefits but new challenges.
I too welcome the equality, but does it have to come at the cost of being truly romantic? Listen to pop songs these days, there isn't even a shred of romance. In the 90s there was talk of love, at least, but these days not even that.
I can't see how liberal vs. conservative plays into it.
Study history... all this ebbs and flows... for the most part nothing is new. Want decadence.. Roman Empire... want love and flowers... Victorian Era. Everything old is knew again.
Really? You can't find any love in pop music? I'm sure if I went through my ipod I could contradict you.... but it really doesn't influence my world too much.
Some people see media as a reflection of our society... and yes it can be. But I surround myself with people like me, I could care less what media reflects. Media, for the most part, reflects the extreme.
My world is filled with somewhat traditional roles for male/female. With romance and love. But also filled with the fact that I am equal, and more than equal in some areas, and less than in other areas. I have business associates and an SO who respect what I have to say when I speak, and who open doors and pull out chairs.
Don't be sheep-eld by media. There are so many different people out there, surround yourself with those you connect with, not the TV.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
You have a choice not to listen to those songs. Just because romance doesn't exist in the songs doesn't mean it's dead IRL. Didn't you have a whole thread on this topic earlier this year?
The problem seems to be that things have improved for women (considerably fewer get beaten to a bloody pulp or killed by an alcoholic husband, no way out due to virtually no divorce), and the rest of the world (men) are still catching up. This doesn't mean life is peachy-keen for women, life itself is a messy thing. But at least they're no longer chained to someone for life they don't love. In the 50's, middle class women had college educations, but were bored out of their skulls being babysitters for kids, and maids & cooks for their husbands. Working class women had to both work and somehow care for kids & husband. There was no daycare, I don't know how they did it. Helped each other out, and ran informal daycares in their homes, I guess. Domestic violence is now a crime. Didn't used to be; the husband had the full right to beat up his wife or rape her. Every era has its challenges. And an improved life and loosening of the rules for women also helps men. Custody is no longer automatically given to the mother, even if she's mentally ill.
I always wondered what the heck Mrs Brady did? She didn't have a job, and why did they need Alice for? I guess it's TV show and they needed her as comic relief, but sort of weird how they were a non-traditional family but she didn't really do anything. Actually that show kind of annoys me sometimes lol.
That is pretty sickening. How men could treat their wives as objects. And yes, many women worked after marriage. The whole 'stay at home housewife' thing is actually a 20th century phenomenon.
Because of women's lib I'm allowed to be in a career I love. I will be forever grateful for my foremothers paving the way for me.
Yes, those things still happen today, but there are resources to help these people instead of just throwing them on the street to fend for themselves. Abuse will never be 'solved' but as long as we can help people (men AND women AND children) get away from that abuse instead of being blamed for it and ostrasized I'd say we're doing a pretty good job.
If you are a pilot or a flight attendant those careers existed well before the womens liberation movement. Amelia Earhardt was flying in the 30s. My neighbor was a female pilot for TWA in the late 60s. I dont know what womens lib had to do with that. Piloting has always been a profession mostly occupied by men, just as women are overwhelmingly flight attendants and nurses. If a woman wanted to fly the opportunity was always there, and in fact as you know was often easier because of preferential hiring later in the 80s.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43
I can't see how liberal vs. conservative plays into it.
Study history... all this ebbs and flows... for the most part nothing is new. Want decadence.. Roman Empire... want love and flowers... Victorian Era. Everything old is knew again.
Really? You can't find any love in pop music? I'm sure if I went through my ipod I could contradict you.... but it really doesn't influence my world too much.
Some people see media as a reflection of our society... and yes it can be. But I surround myself with people like me, I could care less what media reflects. Media, for the most part, reflects the extreme.
My world is filled with somewhat traditional roles for male/female. With romance and love. But also filled with the fact that I am equal, and more than equal in some areas, and less than in other areas. I have business associates and an SO who respect what I have to say when I speak, and who open doors and pull out chairs.
Don't be sheep-eld by media. There are so many different people out there, surround yourself with those you connect with, not the TV.
I seldom listen to the radio, modern music or watch crappy reality TV. I just don't relate to it. I prefer listening to old school jazz (what they'd listen to in old folks homes ), rock'n'roll, idealistic 60s music.etc.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyjohnny38
If you are a pilot or a flight attendant those careers existed well before the womens liberation movement. Amelia Earhardt was flying in the 30s. My neighbor was a female pilot for TWA in the late 60s. I dont know what womens lib had to do with that. Piloting has always been a profession mostly occupied by men, just as women are overwhelmingly flight attendants and nurses. If a woman wanted to fly the opportunity was always there, and in fact as you know was often easier because of preferential hiring later in the 80s.
Like the question of why aren't more women doing engineering. I agree it's not ALL discrimination/repression, many women I've met have expressed a wish to 'work with children.' Some of it is biological maybe.
Right. Smittyjohn, read my post above JJ's, too. The women's movement has made tremendous progress. Just because men still abuse women doesn't mean it hasn't. If you're so concerned about progress, start a men's movement to raise the awareness of other men about domestic violence and about sharing responsibilities in the home.
Men abuse women physically, women abuse men mentally! Sick people will find ways to hurt each other.
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), rock'n'roll, idealistic 60s music.etc.