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Old 09-27-2012, 05:25 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,790,214 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
No, it doesn't have to be a man. A marriage has two people in it, you do realize this right?
I do but I can't imagine any women that would really respect a man who lets her lead. It's not in our psychology.

We can of course talk about this for hours but the only thing I can say don't be surprisde when you are old and alone just because you don't want to be a women in a marriage.

 
Old 09-27-2012, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,572,966 times
Reputation: 101051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch View Post
I am 99.9 percent in agreement with you here. In the end the situation IS determined by personality types, whether leader or follower. I have noticed a tendency in groups, even informal ones where a project was casual in nature, to reach a conclusion and then to kind of stare at one another until someone -- some inexplicable Alpha (in the sociological context, not the pathetic one so bandied about in these forums) speaks the word: Okay, let's get going! And then as if by magic, movement simply begins. Everyone goes off in their direction, the discussion itself was public and mutual -- and yet there is a kind of group hesitation once decision is reached to wait for the signal to GO!

But in relationships? Nope; things just don't work that way.

Often people like to hold up a demanding and purely argumentative caveat: But what if a decision HAS to be made, and the couple is in argument and cannot agree?

That's so very near to PURE conjecture it's laughable. How often do situations like that occur at all, let alone within the confines of a marriage?
Thank you. I don't even know, even though my husband and I would both assert that he is "the leader of our household."

I am sitting here honestly stumped, trying to think of a single time that he's abused that "power," or for that matter even USED it with my knowledge. (If he's using it without my knowledge he is really one slick dude!) We discuss everything with each other. Even in his job, which is highly technical and way out of my realm of expertise, he will sometimes call me and run something by me - to see if I pick up anything "interpersonal" or managerial that may be "off" or need some tweaking.

But - if push came to shove on a matter, unless it was a moral issue, I would let him have the final say. The flip side of that coin is that if he knew (and trust me, I'd let him know) that his decision would greatly upset me or cause me any harm whatsoever, he wouldn't do it. That's where common values come into play. We knew each others value systems when we got married - and our decisions are based on those values. In agreement on values - you will be on agreement on decisions.
 
Old 09-27-2012, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,223,092 times
Reputation: 73924
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I guess you will need to define "equality" in a relationship to me. It's not a quality that either my husband or I frankly give much thought to, because our relationship is not built upon "equality" or the maintenance of it - it's built upon mutual respect, appreciation, honesty and trust, open communication, and common values.

I ALLOW my husband to lead our family in many areas. He ALLOWS me to lead our family in many areas. I have no desire to tell him whether or not he can buy a boat, or give money to his 19 year old son for gas. He has no desire to tell me that he won't allow me to go visit my daughter in Virginia, or buy a pair of expensive stilettos.

Does it even matter if he has "more areas of authority" than I do? (I honestly don't know that he does - the question has never even crossed my mind since we work so well together.) If so, why?

So perhaps we are arguing needlessly about semantics when our goals in a relationship are more in agreement than we realize.
I think you are right about semantics.
But the way you describe your marriage in THIS post does not match the 'you let your husband be your leader' post way back on page whatever-the-heck.

I also think you bring up an excellent point about equals.
What I was referring to is any one person feeling like at the very extreme, when the chips are down, etc, etc, they will have the final authority. No one has authority over my life but me. Period. When you choose to share your life with another, it's about sharing goals, the dance of give and take, the art of compromise, picking your battles - but this comes from a place of love, not obligation or because someone is assigned the final say.
 
Old 09-27-2012, 05:28 PM
 
10,029 posts, read 10,875,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicant310 View Post
men you can "lead" / control you mean..well someone has to wear the pants. We keep saying men and women are equal but are we really? its interesting how people try to make it as equal as possible though. doubt itll ever be 100% equal
I mean I want to have the same role as my husband. If that means I control him, whatever.
 
Old 09-27-2012, 05:28 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,790,214 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
LOL.
This has to be a troll.
Men are so logical and unemotional that most violence is perpetuated by them.
Men outnumber women in prison by THOUSANDS to ONE ratio.
Men rape more than women, hit more than women, get into fistfights in bars more than women, start wars more than women...
Riiiiiiiiiight.
It's that logical, calm, cool violence.
Men also built this beautiful civilization that you now enjoy. Yes we thought wars so that the US of A could be independent and free.
We work harder and longer. W mine coal and dig dicthes.
And as a thank you we tend to live shorter than women and get to read post like yours.
 
Old 09-27-2012, 05:28 PM
 
14,376 posts, read 18,320,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
1) You don't necessarily share a future with your cousins and the choices they make do not affect you as much as choices made by your SO.
Do you get it now?



2) And yet you can't be with any of them... Again, find you mate on the same level. Get out of your comfort zone.



3) No I have not. I do delegate authority though.




4)
There are things I which I can't compromise and there are those I can.
Like everybody else. Someone has to be a leader though. And it has to be a man. You just have to find a man that you will be willing to submit to.



5) That's your choice and just by looking around the fate of amny many women.




6) I don't know. Where are they today? What happened to these great guys?
It didn't work out, did it?



7) I don't know. Sometime I think women like you do not want to act feminine at all. You have great theories explaining eveything in detail and yet can't find a mate. Should make you think.
Sorry to take so long responding - I have a lot of work, and prefer not to write essays during company time.

Let me just preface my responses by noting a few things: Your statements might have a shred of credibility or worth if not for two crucial points. 1) I don't believe in your magical sky god. There is no higher being telling me that it's my duty to submit to a man. I surf the chaos of the universe and stick to my own code. I view the Bible the same way I view the Internet - just because it's the printed word doesn't mean it's true. 2) I'm living a happy life without regrets.

So back to your venom-laced thoughts...

1) No, the choices made by my loved ones do not affect me in the same way that choices made by a partner would. However, I fail to see how pay and education are indicators of someone's ability to make good choices. And since I would not be "submitting" to my partner, their choices would affect me only as much as I chose to accept them.

2) I date well out of my comfort zone quite frequently. I'm always open to new people. However, the men I date long-term inevitably end up being the same "type." If I was at all desperate to be married or in a relationship, then perhaps I would be frantically flinging myself at the next Ivy-League office guy to wander down the path. But I'm not. My biological clock doesn't scare me, and being alone is really nothing new. I grew up an only child in a rural area. Solitude holds no horrors for me, but many pleasures. I rarely enter into relationships because the kind of guy who suits me best is somewhat rare. So the odds of me finding a partner for life have always been pretty low.

3) You "delegate authority" to your wife? My, how generous. Being in possession of my own authority, I'm quite curious as to what should motivate me to give that up. Oh wait, that's the next point...

4) Once again, you're channeling a magical sky god. "Someone has to be a leader though. And it has to be a man." LOL. No one is infallible, and I'm not in the military - so no, I don't need a leader. I've managed my life quite well on my own so far, and if I find a guy who wants to be my co-manager of our life as a couple, that would be great. But if it never happens, I'm not too worried.

5) Yep. That's quite possible. I'll have a lot of good company in my old age. But it should be noted that my parents threw everything they had into my education. They nurtured my intellect and my independence, knowing that that was the best way to ensure my happiness. I was never being groomed to be some guy's follower. Interestingly, they are both conservative Republicans, and my father is much older than most men with children my age (81). They are long-divorced from each other (and interestingly, my mother was they typical submissive wife, letting my father guide her -- to disastrous effect), and both believe me to be the only good thing to come out of their marriage. They both drank the Kool-Aid they were being plied with and did what they were supposed to do (Pop managed to do it 3 times, actually). They married not really because they wanted to, but because society expected it. They learned some hard lessons that I'm not going to waste. Both are very happy in their old age as single people.

6) Nope - those guys didn't work out. As frequently happens with relationships. But I had a blast while I was with each of them, for the most part. When they stop adding to my happiness and things didn't seem like they would improve, I ended things. As I stated previously, I like a rare kind of man, and I'm content to fish in that tiny pool, even if it means I don't find a lifetime partner. To step outside of that pool and court other men would require me to become a different type of person - and who I am is the result of a lifetime of work. I'm quite happy with how I'm turning out.

7) Once again, if I were desperate for a mate, your thoughts might give me pause. And yet, I'm not. I'm not at all in line with your version of femininity, but if I was, I'd be miserable. It's not who I am, and I like being happy. Moreover, I know of plenty of happy relationships where the leader-follower dynamic doesn't exist in the rigid way that you define it. So I'll cheerfully continue being my own monstrous version of femininity, scorning the traditional path and choosing my own, and dating terribly inappropriate men who bring me added joy and passion during our times together. And when I am old, well, I suspect I shall become even ornerier
 
Old 09-27-2012, 05:29 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,790,214 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idon'tdateyou View Post
I mean I want to have the same role as my husband. If that means I control him, whatever.
And I want to be rich and beautiful yet we seldom get what we really want.
 
Old 09-27-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,223,092 times
Reputation: 73924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicant310 View Post
Violent personalities attract other violent personalities. ask any therapist. they asked for it.
My point is that given how much more prone to violence men are, I always find it laughable when people trot out that whole "women are too emotional and men are more calm and logical" chestnut.
 
Old 09-27-2012, 05:31 PM
 
10,029 posts, read 10,875,114 times
Reputation: 5946
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
What makes you think romantic relationships are any different than any other kind of human relationship? Remember, I am not talking about blind obedience but a leadership.



It is not that rare. Men and women have often different perspectives on things like raising kids and discipline for instance. Women have often problems making logical decisions as they are more likely to be driven by their emotions not logic. Especially when it comes to their kids. I have seen it myself.

Someone has to lead and it has to be a man. Otherwise the man in the marriage is not really a man.
What a man isn't a man if he's not a leader? Tell that to my exboyfriends who would have made excellent husbands and fathers but were not alpha males (and never claimed to be). The leader can be whomever wants to be and this varies on many things. As for logic, I make decisions in a very rational and logical way in all cases. I do not let my emotions take control of this.
 
Old 09-27-2012, 05:31 PM
 
601 posts, read 757,720 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idon'tdateyou View Post
I mean I want to have the same role as my husband. If that means I control him, whatever.

in a sense you do. thats what balance is. interchanging those submissive roles. the problem is it usually gets out of track because the stronger personality WILL NOT let go of that position so easily.
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