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Here's where you are wrong - not all men are either smooth, charming d-bags or shy, unrefined quality men. There are lots of quality men out there who are comfortable talking with women. And many quality women that are looking for more than a one night stand can tell the difference between a d-bag and a good guy.
The only way you can really get to know someone is by talking with them. If you are incapable of carrying on a conversation with someone - it's going to be pretty darn hard for anyone to get to know you or for you to get to know anyone. There has to be a certain level of comfort when talking with someone in order for you to want to get to know them better. And having a lot of pent up rage and blame toward the opposite sex isn't going to help things.
I'm not wrong about anything.
I clearly said, 'and some of those guys'.
I also didn't say or insinuate that all women fall for all of these charming douches.
I also never said anything disagreeing with your second paragraph sans the last sentence. I'm only saying it's more difficult for him because he has a lot to offer a woman, but only has trouble talking with women in social settings. He's getting passed up, sometimes for douches, and it's understandably frustrating.
And in regards to his 'pent up rage', I highly doubt he wants to go shoot up a school over this.
Would you rather him vent on a message bosed or develop a dependence on alcohol so Internet tough gals don't vilify him and accuse him of being a misgynist?
You can't tell me that OP can't find girls who aren't just as tongue-tied as he is.
If he's continually pitching at more social, confident girls, well of course he's going to be passed over as too dull.
You don't need to look far to find the quieter girls just sitting at the edges of things wishing someone would notice them. The sort who are grateful for attention.
It's the same old CD story - a guy getting bitter because he can't get the hot girls he feels entitled to, even though he has virtually nothing to offer them.
I also didn't say or insinuate that all women fall for all of these charming douches.
I also never said anything disagreeing with your second paragraph sans the last sentence. I'm only saying it's more difficult for him because he has a lot to offer a woman, but only has trouble talking with women in social settings. He's getting passed up, sometimes for douches, and it's understandably frustrating.
And in regards to his 'pent up rage', I highly doubt he wants to go shoot up a school over this.
Would you rather him vent on a message bosed or develop a dependence on alcohol so Internet tough gals don't vilify him and accuse him of being a misgynist?
Thank you for clarifying - although you did say some guys at one point - it still sounded to me like you felt that men were either one or the other. Thank you for clearing that up.
As for what he has to offer a woman - I think he needs to realize that being hot and lasting a long time in bed does not mean that you have a lot to offer a woman. He needs to take the blame off of "women" and take a good look at himself. He can work out as much as he wants to - but that doesn't make him a good catch. There is so much more to being a good catch than being hot.
As for being frustrated in being passed up for d-bags - well, when I was dating - if a guy passed me up for someone hottie that had no more depth to her than the kiddie pool - I just figured he wasn't worth my time in the first place. If that is what he is looking for - we would not be a good match anyway.
I'd rather him vent in a more positive manner. Vent about the particular person. Or vent to someone that you know personally so that they can actually lend a sympathetic ear. Venting your frustration by insulting women isn't going to get much sympathy from women.
WRONG, you can control your reactions and actions you just have to learn how to do that. Many women "stick it out" with men hence the reason many are married or in a committed relationship and many stick it out for too long and stay in terribel relationships and marriages that are abusive but that is the choice of those involved in said relationship.
Given that many women worry about hurting a guy's feelings, don't like confrontation, or don't like to seem rude, that they're cutting him off after 5 minutes says a lot.
As for being frustrated in being passed up for d-bags - well, when I was dating - if a guy passed me up for someone hottie that had no more depth to her than the kiddie pool - I just figured he wasn't worth my time in the first place. If that is what he is looking for - we would not be a good match anyway.
This.
Everyone gets passed up for something through the course of a lifetime.
If I got passed up for some other woman.... so goes life. And when someone passes you up for the obvious (the chick with huge boobs, the good looking douche), well, you just learned something about them didn't you? You learned they are not someone you would want to date.
And you say you are a good looking, interesting guy who just makes a bad first impression. IF that is the case it should be easy to fix - sans all the anger at other people for an issue that is your problem.
I think it's partly because of the assumptions made by some women because of a guy's ability to hold a convo, like how good you are in bed, relationship material, etc.
Well, I don't know if some women assume all of that, but certainly, they're just going to assume he's uninteresting. They may assume he's immature and of-lesser-intelligence.
This thread brought to memory a date I had once. The man sat there barely making eye contact, shuffling around, saying, "Uh, huh, yeh" a lot and had a weird laugh that was like a bird twittering. He was attractive enough, and he may have been the best lay ever, may have had his own successful business and may have been a philanthropist for all I knew. However, I was never going to find out because he was giving me a major creep vibe, and one way "gabbing" from me (as the OP may call it) was getting on my nerves. I like to converse, not just yap to fill the silence.
I think OP ought to figure out a way to film himself, watch his body language and listen to the words he actually does say to women. It might be quite telling. The anger coming through his typing is telling.
I never insulted the entire gender, get over yourself, drama queens. There are plenty of people who aren't mindless gabbers. Ditto the American culture thing. It's just an annoying ubiquitous.
And I like how whenever I outright put up an example that disproves a claim (JetJockey, in this case) on these forums, no one ever responds. Course they don't, cause that would involve admitting they're wrong.
I feel like I need to vent a little
Women, what's so god damned great about "confidence"?
What's so great about being good at conversation? All the times you think a guy is great and entertaining, he's really talking about nothing. If women would stop focusing on a guy being superficially entertaining, maybe there'd be fewer women who divorce 10 years later when they realize their husband is just an entertaining POS.
I can get nervous talking to a woman sometimes, and I find it hard to make conversation out of whole cloth, which is an overrated skill anyway. Do you really think I won't f!@# your brains out? (I say that part because women discriminate on the conversation thing even with casual stuff). Or entertain you? I'm one of the few guys out there who can actually dance - actual dancing, ballroom dancing.
I mean hell, there was even a thread on here about being talked out of the mood from too much talking: HELLO!?
Do you really think social confidence is the same as self-confidence? I know I'm awesome, but years of dicks in my life screwed me over socially.
Women's judgement is horrible. They think they can read what a guy's like, but the reality is they have no idea. I remember a thread where a girl said she knew this butt ugly guy that was really entertaining and she really wanted him, and she said she "knew he would be good in bed". Really? What the hell? How the hell would you know somehting like that outside of trying? I got a buddy like that, was on 'roids and everything looked awesome, got a decent amount of women, but I know incidentally he never lasts longer than 15 minutes (we were joking about stuff and it came up).
How about YOU talk and entertain me, or talk about something real and topical, or just be quiet and dance with me, and letme take you to my place. Or not and just stick it out. Do no women stick it out with a guy? Let him get more comfortable? I mean you look at me you know I look good, you like it, but then when I talk to you you give up on me in 5 minutes? Pfff.
You can't tell me that OP can't find girls who aren't just as tongue-tied as he is.
huh, that's a good idea. Never thought of that
The whole try with women constantly, or try different people sounds nice, but I barely get to get out, so any strategy or activity or just anything is going to/does take me a while.
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