Friend's husband wants her to be a submissive housewife (male, cheat, American)

[LeGenDary_Man]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

I did not call myself good-natured. I called my husband good-natured, and he is for a dozen reasons. I do not think a person who is violent towards others is good-natured. That has nothing to do with where my character stands. Just because a person doesn't hit people doesn't mean s/he's good natured.

You need to understand that people are not so black and white in general.

With this sentence; "I do not think a person who is violent towards others is good-natured." - you seem to focus upon extreme scenarios only. Obviously a person who is (habitually) voilent towards others is not good-natured.

But what about grey areas?

As an analogy: If a woman eventually hits her child for being a brat after several warnings but to no avail; is she automatically a bad-natured person?

Of-course, people in relationships should be respectful towards their spouses even during the course of disagreements. However, if one day situation does get to the point of hitting or forcing during a course of an argument; tolerance is advised. It is possible that the individual who got hit was at fault too (a serious one). Now you should not assume that once an abuser - always an abuser. This is FAKE ASSUMPTION. Even good-natured people can snap and they do. This may be hard for you to digest but this is how most relationships survive at global level during rough phases. Try to see through the point instead of visualizing extreme scenarios.

I wonder how you will cope, if yours gets to rough phase one day.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

Finally, it doesn't matter what members here think of me, tho I have a dozen or so good online friends. I measure how I'm doing by the outcome in my life. That's really the only way I can measure myself. My family situation, my friends, my career, how I spend my time off line, etc tells me most of what I need to know.

You have this ME factor in you. This is why you are judgemental and inflexible. It is always about you.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

Just as what's happening with you or any other poster. That tells you where you are and how well your worldview is working for you.

And what's happening with me?

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

I disagree. I was fine with the conversation until you stated that some levels of abuse should be tolerated and then you added the whole slap thing, which was absurd. I don't think this is a soft/sensitive thing. I'm an Italian from the Newark NJ area. I grew up watching violence. I know what sickos are. I know the behavior. It's my lack of softness that brings me to a space of abuse intolerance. Further, I don't expect anyone to conform to my standards outside those that I run with. I fully expect a rainbow of people on this planet to be who they are and I'm not really a person that gives advice online. I'll share my perspective, and perhaps make a general claim (e.g., the importance of friends/support structure, etc), but as I stated earlier most of the time these threads do not provide enough information to give reasonable advice. People do a whole bunch of assuming, insert their stories, and talk past each other. Frankly, I really didn't believe the OP in it's entirety. I thought it too ridiculous to be real (who knows tho).

Now this is an example of a mature input. Good. This is how healthy discussions should be.

I believe that your childhood experiences have made you this much sensitive. Best course of action for you is to not participate in these kinds of debates because you may have to put up with perceptions that may not be comfortable for you to digest. Otherwise, learn to be rational and not judgemental.

I was fine with you until you became judgemental. But I understand that no one is perfect. So I let go off the steam rather easily.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

There's nothing above to see. You're not answering because you can't.

Here;

No one is advocating here to be tolerant towards routine abuse. This is not healthy. However, my intended point from the start is that people should have some level of tolerance in them so that they can better cope with rough phases of the relationships. Their are countless examples in which one spouse snaps during the rough phase of the relationship and ends up doing something terrible to hurt the other spouse. This is not healthy either.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

You're not answering because you likely have hit and are hit.

No, you are wrong.

If you want to know me better then use PM option. However, I will give minor input;

I tend to avoid confrontations and I fully believe in reasonable compromises. But I also believe in self-defence; if somebody hits me - I will hit back! Simple (But this is not the end of relationship for me). I am confident and not hyper-sensitive.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

Nothing cheap about it. I don't believe for one second that you or any other man that is a proponent of violence in relationships really has the wit to ruffle my womanly feathers.

Let me get this straight; I or those who agree with me are not actually proponents of violence. We are simply much more tolerant then you are. I strongly value my relationships. You should learn to determine when people are talking in REALIST perspective.

[jasper12]

Women breastfeed...not men. Therefore, men may state a preference, and be politely listened too, with respect. And told that unless he has breasts with milk...all child feeding decisions will be done by the one doing the feeding.

Four kids, all breast fed....but it should not be "dictated"...it is hard work...and some women cant do it...for many reasons. That does not make them any less of a Mother.

Just added my two cents on that issue.

[Idon'tdateyou]

That's what I will never understand is when men order their wives to breastfeed, stay at home, etc. It's her choice not his.

I spoke to my friend tonight and she is going to go to counseling tomorrow. She told him she is going back to work and if he can't handle it she wants a divorce. He got mad of course but according to her no violence. We'll see.

I actually avoided a guy like this on a dating site. He started the whole "moms who work are bad and good moms stay at home and breastfeed and then home school". He then admitted he pushed his ex after a fight. I never met this guy but almost did.

[LeGenDary_Man]

Originally Posted by Idon'tdateyou

That's what I will never understand is when men order their wives to breastfeed, stay at home, etc. It's her choice not his.

The point is about making compromises. Husbands have expectations from their wives. Same is true in reverse. Give and take is important in marriages.

If it is always about her or him; the relationship is dysfunctional and not working.

Originally Posted by Idon'tdateyou

I spoke to my friend tonight and she is going to go to counseling tomorrow. She told him she is going back to work and if he can't handle it she wants a divorce. He got mad of course but according to her no violence. We'll see.

I actually avoided a guy like this on a dating site. He started the whole "moms who work are bad and good moms stay at home and breastfeed and then home school". He then admitted he pushed his ex after a fight. I never met this guy but almost did.

The husband is not physically voilent type perhaps, which is good. However, do advice your friend to accept some of his demands at least. It shouldn't be always about her.

[funisart]

Originally Posted by Idon'tdateyou

I was bottlefed and that was common with people my age. So was my brother. Both of us graduated college (and he's a doctor, I "only" have a masters)and both are healthy. Breastfeeding can be a drain on women and that is why formula was invented. Let dad do his fair share and too many don't between this and diaper changing. It's partly why I don't have babies.

Breastfeeding helps the woman heal. It helps with bonding, as well as develops the baby's immune system. Skin on skin contact, (non sexual), with the infant also increases the bond. The OP said the husband wanted the wife not to wear a top while breastfeeding, not to be nude all day in the house.Breastfeeding is encouraged now, at least for the first six months, and most educated mothers at least try. It is not aways possible, and it sounds fishy that the OP's friend was forced in the delivery room--not the normal place to start.

It is interesting that you as a single, non pregnant woman have discussed not breastfeeding, with your single compatriots.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by LeGenDary_Man

You need to understand that people are not so black and white in general.

With this sentence; "I do not think a person who is violent towards others is good-natured." - you seem to focus upon extreme cases only. Obviously a person who is (habitually) voilent towards others is not good-natured.

But what about grey areas?

As an analogy: If a woman eventually hits her child for being a brat after several warnings but to no avail; is she automatically a bad-natured person?

How parents deal with their children is a separate issue from my pov. I don't have an opinion in that area. I do know that a spouse treating his/her spouse as a child is screwed up. So, I don't think the two situations are comparable. Anyhow, the only grey area I would concede when it comes to violence is self-defense, temporary madness (protecting/revenging for a loved one, etc), or something professionally trained like the police or military. A person that loses his/her temper and reacts violently exhibits personality tendency. What you're arguing here is for two dispositions and I don't buy that. It suggests mental illness. While that may not be a person's fault, it's not acceptable.

Of-course, people in relationships should be respectful towards their spouses even during the course of disagreements. However, if one day situation does get to the point of hitting or forcing during a course of an argument; tolerance is advised. Because the individual who got hit is most likely to be at fault too (a serious one). This may be unacceptable to you but this is how most relationships survive at global level during rough phases.

That's typical abuser talk. I don't know if it's how most relationships survive, although I wouldn't be surprised as quite a large portion of the planet's population is not civilized like the west and uneducated. It's not acceptable behavior among a civilized and educated populace.

I wonder how you will cope, if yours gets to rough phase one day.

I'm not really worried about what I will do when it comes to my husband. He would never. He does not hail from that kind of stock. I wonder how you will cope when a woman seriously damages you in return. You never know what a person is capable of until you lay your hands on them. I suggest that you be careful.

You have this ME factor in you. This is why you do not learn from strangers. It is always about you.

I learn from strangers, just not from people like you who think abuse should be tolerated, or ex-cons like posterior who think it's normal, or whoever else on this forum that holds to a worldview I reject. I learn from people that I respect and that's reasonable. Really, I think you are projecting this "me" factor. Your opinion is not always going to be valued. Just because you exist doesn't mean what you have to say should be valued or even considered, especially if it showcases substandard, wanting worldviews.

And what's happening with me?

Only you can answer that. You lay in the bed you have made in your life just as we all do.

Now this is an example of a mature input. Good. This is how healthy discussions should be.

That's not a discussion. It's a statement that I'm familiar with the filth the world has to offer and that filth has been exhibited in this thread and it's text book. An abuser excuses the abuse, blames the victim, and has an expectation of keeping it private. Really, it could be coming from some 20-year old kid in his criminal justice class reading from his first assignment.

I believe that your childhood experiences have made you this much sensitive. Best course of action for you is to not participate in these kinds of debates because you may have to put up with perceptions that may not be comfortable for you to digest. Otherwise, learn to be rational and not judgemental.

Please, don't try to control people online. It's goofy. If anything, I think you are too sensitive. You are looking for validation from a stranger online. This is not the place to obtain that. And as if you have the first inkling of what is a rational argument.You have no idea why violence should be tolerated. You have not offered reasoning behind any of your statements. A rough patch is meaningless. You are under the erroneous assumption that your ability to type words on a computer screen, however grammatically compromised, is equivalent to a reasonable argument. In the end, what you are doing is attempting to reconcile your stuff, you, your behavior/whatever, just like people always do.

I was fine with you until you became judgemental. But I understand that no one is perfect. So I let go off the steam rather easily.

Expect to be judged. It's the nature of life. And expect to be challenged, especially on the internet. This forum is not PC and I'm certainly not PC. As you say, don't be so sensitive.

No one is advocating here to be tolerant towards routine abuse. This is not healthy. However, my intended point from the start is that people should have some level of tolerance in them so that they can better cope with rough phases of the relationships. Their are countless examples in which one spouse snaps during the rough phase of the relationship and ends up doing something terrible to hurt the other spouse. This is not healthy either.

Let's educate you.

Our mental health expert explains why even a one-time smack can be a symptom of a more serious problem.

Q. During an argument last night, my husband hit me for the first time. When it's just one time, is that physical abuse?
A. It certainly is. Any time one person hits another person, it's considered assault, which is physical abuse.


You may think this is the first time you've been abused, but often other types of abuse precede physically striking out. Think back on your history with your husband. Does he frequently criticize you? Call you names? Prevent you from seeing friends or family? Has he humiliated you in public? Blocked your exit from a room? Denied that his actions are serious -- or implied that you're just being "oversensitive"? All of these actions are emotionally (and verbally) abusive --and each of them can be a precursor to physical abuse.


In addition, according to a number of studies, once a man has been violent, there's a chance he'll become violent again -- maybe even more violent. That's why I highly recommend couples therapy (for you and your husband) and individual therapy (for you). But if you at any time feel unsafe, you should leave immediately and notify the authorities.

Should You Be Worried if He Hit You Just Once?

Now, read the above and try to digest it. Note yourself in what is highlighted in RED. Uncanny if you ask me. Rates of repeating the violent behavior are high enough for concern. Further, one act of violence incites a return act of violence, which increases the probability of repeat behavior. By the time a person gets to the point of becoming violent, it's preceded by other forms of abuse, and it just becomes easier.

No, you are wrong.

If you want to know me better then use PM option. However, I will give minor input;

I cannot stand when men on this forum try to debate me via PM. No way. It's here or not at all. And there's reason you don't want to make it public.

I tend to avoid confrontations and I fully believe in reasonable compromises. But I also believe in self-defence; if somebody hits me - I will hit back! Simple. I am confident and not hyper-sensitive.

You just stated above the person who gets hit usually deserves it. So, if someone hits you shouldn't you just take it since you likely caused it? That is your rationale, however irrational.

Let me get this straight; I or those who agree with me are not actually proponents of violence. We are simply much more tolerant then you are. I strongly value my relationships. You should learn to determine when people are talking in REALIST perspective.

You are contradicting yourself. You are saying people are hit because they caused it. You are saying that people should not be sharing abuse with friends because it's private. You are saying that it's realistic to expect some level of violence in a relationship because things can get rough. That's all nonsense. It doesn't add up. Are you married? If so, how long and how often has violence surfaced in your marriage and other relationships?

[Nite Ryder]

Originally Posted by Idon'tdateyou

I suspect he did but she insists he was normal. I think she should have known better but was probably so desperate to marry she overlooked things.

Possibly this is the reason for all of this (her being desperate to marry and be supported by a husband). She probably accepted his controlling behave before and has come to a point where enough is enough. She needs to stop discussing her problems with friends who can't really help her and may give her the wrong advice and seek the services of a counselor to sort out what to do. If her husband is really as bad as she says he is, the counselor will point that out to both of them. In some homes the husband is the head of the household, but he needs to take into consideration her thoughts and feelings before he makes any major rule changes. If she can support herself maybe she should have decided to do that before she got married and had a child.

[Nite Ryder]

Originally Posted by Idon'tdateyou

I suspect he did but she insists he was normal. I think she should have known better but was probably so desperate to marry she overlooked things.

Possibly this is the reason for all of this (her being desperate to marry and be supported by a husband). She probably accepted his controlling behave before and has come to a point where enough is enough. She needs to stop discussing her problems with friends who can't really help her and may give her the wrong advice and seek the services of a counselor to sort out what to do. If her husband is really as bad as she says he is, the counselor will point that out to both of them. In some homes the husband is the head of the household, but he needs to take into consideration her thoughts and feelings before he makes any major rule changes. If she can support herself maybe she should have decided to do that before she got married and had a child. One other thing, you are just hearing one side of a story and it is probably slanted just a bit to make her look good.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by Idon'tdateyou

That's what I will never understand is when men order their wives to breastfeed, stay at home, etc. It's her choice not his.

I spoke to my friend tonight and she is going to go to counseling tomorrow. She told him she is going back to work and if he can't handle it she wants a divorce. He got mad of course but according to her no violence. We'll see.

I actually avoided a guy like this on a dating site. He started the whole "moms who work are bad and good moms stay at home and breastfeed and then home school". He then admitted he pushed his ex after a fight. I never met this guy but almost did.

Good for you for being there for your friend. It's excellent to hear/read she's going to counseling.

[Jay F]

Originally Posted by Idon'tdateyou

That's what I will never understand is when men order their wives to breastfeed, stay at home, etc. It's her choice not his.

I spoke to my friend tonight and she is going to go to counseling tomorrow. She told him she is going back to work and if he can't handle it she wants a divorce. He got mad of course but according to her no violence. We'll see.

I actually avoided a guy like this on a dating site. He started the whole "moms who work are bad and good moms stay at home and breastfeed and then home school". He then admitted he pushed his ex after a fight. I never met this guy but almost did.

At least he expressed his view on this upfront.I honestly didn't know there are still men who insist women not work. I hope they make good money.

The quickest way to change our culture where no men have these (IMO) backwards gender role ideas is for all women to boycott such men. The problem is the men who are the most sexist and traditional on gender roles often have the"real man" qualities women can't resist such as machismo, excess muscularity, and an overall dominant disposition.