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A lot of men want to keep a peaceful home. There is nothing wrong with that. But they falsely believe that if they give into their wives "small" request. That in some mathematical equation. She will be happy and content. They later find out it is a fools errand.
It is impossible to be responsible for another person's happiness. You can and should be respectful to your wife and family. But that doesn't mean suppressing your happiness for hers. She will never respect you and continue to nag you more. Until one of snaps. She will eventually cheat on you for a "real" man or he will cheat on her for to feel more like a man.
But we don't really know what the reality is, only the speculation of a friend who wanted things not to change. You are taking a huge leap in your post. You talk about being responsible for someone else's happiness. Who knows what Benjamin really wants.....but clearly it seems the Benjamins of the world are responsible for their friend's happiness as well, if you want to put it that way.
I think that this thread is fascinating and it touches on a dynamic that doesn't get explored much....the guy with married friends or friends in serious relationships. I think it is interesting that it is perceived that the woman is making some sort of demands, but the pressures of the unmarried friend are considered to be okay. The unmarried friends will not be satisfied with anything less than the friendship staying exactly as it was..isn't that its own sort of pressure?
To clarify once and for all: before Benjamin even met Eve, I had spent about 1 year or so socializing often with married guys who had 2 or 3 kids each. These children at that time ranged from 2 to 8 years old. They weren't newlyweds. They had plenty of experience juggling work, wife, kids, and "guy time." Yet they did a good job of it, and none of those guys' wives held those guys in (for the most part, but when they did hold them in, it was something reasonable, such as one of the guys having had dinner & drinks, going home to get his car to go out for MORE drinks, and the wife not being too happy about it.).
I'm curious what you mean they did a good job of it...juggling their various responsibilities? How would you really know that, and by what parameters would you judge that?
But we don't really know what the reality is, only the speculation of a friend who wanted things not to change. You are taking a huge leap in your post. You talk about being responsible for someone else's happiness. Who knows what Benjamin really wants.....but clearly it seems the Benjamins of the world are responsible for their friend's happiness as well, if you want to put it that way.
I think that this thread is fascinating and it touches on a dynamic that doesn't get explored much....the guy with married friends or friends in serious relationships. I think it is interesting that it is perceived that the woman is making some sort of demands, but the pressures of the unmarried friend are considered to be okay. The unmarried friends will not be satisfied with anything less than the friendship staying exactly as it was..isn't that its own sort of pressure?
I find it even more interesting that it's perceived that the woman is making the demands and the man is an unwilling and involuntary participant who would rather be with his friends than his wife and kids, but does so to "keep the peace".
It seems to come as quite a surprise to many single men that their married friends actually want to be married and want to spend time with their families, and that drinking and partying isn't their life's objective anymore.
Some men are just wimpy cuckolds who let their wifes push them around. It reminds me of my brother. He's about the opposite of me in every way, hes wimpy, unintellectual, conservative, bald and odd looking. So he married this woman and I've never seen a guy be so wimpy and whipped in my life, she has him going to her temple every weekend which is a 2 hr drive each way (he was nonreligious beforehand) and pretty much ruling the roost. Some guys are just ballless wimps, they'd just meet a different woman and act the same way. Some women are ballbusters and would not likely be able to be married to an assertive masculine man. It's just in some people's nature.
Some men are just wimpy cuckolds who let their wifes push them around. It reminds me of my brother. He's about the opposite of me in every way, hes wimpy, unintellectual, conservative, bald and odd looking. So he married this woman and I've never seen a guy be so wimpy and whipped in my life, she has him going to her temple every weekend which is a 2 hr drive each way (he was nonreligious beforehand) and pretty much ruling the roost. Some guys are just ballless wimps, they'd just meet a different woman and act the same way. Some women are ballbusters and would not likely be able to be married to an assertive masculine man. It's just in some people's nature.
How do you know he's not thrilled to be with her, is madly in love, and so is happy to join her religion? (A 4-hr. drive round-trip is a bit much for anyone, but there must be something in it for both of them...) Maybe this is happiness, to him.
Ok, sarcasm aside. If you're married - male or female - your input is welcome.
My best friend "Benjamin" got married a bit over 2 years ago. Throughout 2010, as his dating relationship with his now wife, "Eve," developed into an engagement and ultimately into a marriage, I saw less and less of him. I understood this. He was in love, had found the one at last, and was investing much of him into Eve, as he was very much into her and vice-versa.
Today, Benjamin and Eve are proud parents of a baby, and they're very happy.
Now, Benjamin is a good guy, but he was always a bit lazy, and lacked proactivity. Not assertive. Two long-distance road trips we took in the final 1.5 years before his wedding were my initiative. In fact, on the last road trip, which happened 3 months before his wedding, Eve called him out on his passivity in an email, as they were having arguments about getting wedding stuff done (in the email, she said, "look at this very road trip. Sprawling did all the work: itinerary, hotel, research. You took a passive role and are simply tagging along.").
With this in mind, and how much he loved and loves Eve, it did not surprise me at all that after his wedding, I barely saw him. I saw him 5 times in 2011 and in 2012, so far, twice - he took me out for my birthday and I took him out to his. I will see him a final time in 2012 soon, as his baby has her first birthday party.
But what struck me was that it was as if he became a virtual recluse. I accept the fact Eve is a lot prettier than I am, and I know newlyweds spend tons of time together at first. But no happy hours, ever? No invitations for dinner once in a while? Nope. Nothing.
I admit it would help if Benjamin and I had more common interests. I like to work out. He doesn't. He likes watching sports. I do not.
I asked him flat out, once, if Eve keeps him at home. He said no, but knowing Benjamin, I believe he is too proud to ever admit that he's whipped by his wife and that she doesn't like him going out.
The reason all this struck me as strange is that years before Benjamin even met Eve, I used to socialize with a few married men. One of them has an oldest child who is now 12, so he's no newbie to marriage. His wife let him go out with me on occasion, freely, without any problems.
Other married men whom I've socialized with... surely they weren't as free as single guys, but none of them was as "homebound" as Benjamin has been. If they were, it happened before I met them.
And in fact, nearly 1 year ago, another friend of mine got married. But Ron goes out with me and his other guy friends freely. Not that Ron wants to or cares to go out and get plastered every night. But he's free to do as he wishes. His wife is understanding and flexible. They strike me more as a team.
With Benjamin and Eve, I can't help but think that she bosses him around - and I think this is in large part to the fact that Benjamin brought a measure of laziness and a lack of proactivity to the marriage. Eve however works in finance, is uptight, and gets things done. Benjamin himself admitted to me that he is now no longer a slob because Eve won't tolerate it. He has also admitted that he cannot ignore his wife if she tells him to be responsible/proactive, although he freely ignored my suggestions that he be more proactive when he was single, before Eve showed up.
So, my questions are:...
MARRIED MEN:
1. Did your wives try to keep you at home? If so, why? Were they jealous? Did they think you were going to go out and get wasted at strip parlors? Were they insecure?
2. If your wives did this but changed, what made them change?
3. If your wives did this, how did you react? Did you comply, rebel, or try to seek a common ground which would allow you a measure of "guy time" with the guys every month?
MARRIED WOMEN:
1. Did you ever try to keep your husbands at home early in your marriage? If so, why?
2. Did they listen?
3. If they "obeyed" you, did you then think your "authority" was extendable to other areas?
4. If they "obeyed" you, did you feel pride in domineering your husbands? Or did you lose respect for them as they became submissive to a woman (you)?
5. If you were domineering early on but later let him have more social time/etc., what happened that made you change?
Perhaps this is why people sweat getting married?
I thought marriage is a union of two people, which means a part of your selves are retained, and the other part, you are one with the other?
Manhood for some guys, womanhood for some women (hetero/or homosexual relationships) can also be defined in regards to giving up of oneself in order to raise another human being (e.g., offspring), part of which represents ones pride and joy.
How do you know he's not thrilled to be with her, is madly in love, and so is happy to join her religion? (A 4-hr. drive round-trip is a bit much for anyone, but there must be something in it for both of them...) Maybe this is happiness, to him.
Normal people are brainwashed into driving 2 hrs for a temple? He's an idiot, not much you can deflect from that. Only stupid people have a religion in the first place. Im just depressed that waste of life and his wife will have kids
It seems to come as quite a surprise to many single men that their married friends actually want to be married and want to spend time with their families, and that drinking and partying isn't their life's objective anymore.
I see why you assumed that I might've wanted Benjamin to keep 'drinking and partying' with me, but he and I were never partiers to begin with. We did and sometimes do drink socially, but even when we were much younger singles, our drinks would be with either dinner, or as a post-dinner sit-down conversation. He and I never once, ONCE!... had one of those stereotypical bachelors' nights when guys go out and get plastered.
I never once claimed that I wanted him to be free even as a married man (as my other friend Ron and other married friends have been sufficiently free) so we could go and get drunk or to go party.
But it's what other said. I think they are right. Benjamin was lazy, un-proactive, and a follower as a bachelor, and marriage has done nothing to change that (except the fact that Eve wouldn't put up with his slobby ways, and that's good, because in that sense I'm similar to Eve. On that I thank Eve - for making Benjamin finally learn how to clean up after himself.).
I see why you assumed that I might've wanted Benjamin to keep 'drinking and partying' with me, but he and I were never partiers to begin with. We did and sometimes do drink socially, but even when we were much younger singles, our drinks would be with either dinner, or as a post-dinner sit-down conversation. He and I never once, ONCE!... had one of those stereotypical bachelors' nights when guys go out and get plastered.
I never once claimed that I wanted him to be free even as a married man (as my other friend Ron and other married friends have been sufficiently free) so we could go and get drunk or to go party.
But it's what other said. I think they are right. Benjamin was lazy, un-proactive, and a follower as a bachelor, and marriage has done nothing to change that (except the fact that Eve wouldn't put up with his slobby ways, and that's good, because in that sense I'm similar to Eve. On that I thank Eve - for making Benjamin finally learn how to clean up after himself.).
Now, I didn't specifically mean just you about the "drinking and partying", it's a lament I've seen and heard from other men too.
My own SO had a similar complaint when I first met him. It wasn't drinking and partying so much as just not seeing his friends very often anymore, that they'd changed. He's the last of his friends to get married, and/or have kids. His core group of friends lived in the downtown of a major city. Marriage took most of them to the suburbs, and then a few had children as well.
That's to be expected into your late 20s and 30s. They weren't doing anything unusual. While he perceived that they had changed, technically it was my SO that hadn't changed. (I don't believe that anyone needs to get married or have kids, just trying to make a point here). ThHis is a natural progression in life, to pair up and create your own family, and SO, and many other single men out there, struggle to adapt, because they haven't changed in the same waysd as their friends. We get together more frequently as couples, as opposed to just him and his buddies. We get together at their homes for a child's birthday more often than going out without kids. We see them less because they're scattered in three different directions, no longer just a few subway stops away. It is much more of an effort to get together now because of physical distance, time and family responsibilities.
When you don't have those responsibilities, it is tough to understand "what happened" to those friends. It's a different stage of life they're at, and you have to learn to roll with it, or ditch the friends for other single guys who are available at a moment's notice for beer and wings. It's not supposed to stay the same as it was when you were younger, had no worries, no responsibilities, disposable income and ree time. IMO it makes those times together more valuable and precious because they are fewer and further between.
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