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The government already has a pre-nup for you. It's the laws of each state that tell you what is going to happen if you divorce.
Might as well make your own.
Anyone who eschews this based on 'it's not romantic' is turning a blind eye to the fact that there IS ALREADY a pre-nup out there with your name on it. Why don't you dictate the rules instead of the government?
This *is* the fact that people try to ignore. YOU HAVE a prenup, whether you signed one or not. It changes every time you move to a different state, because every state has different divorce laws. It is subject to interpretation by a judge who doesn't care about you, and varies depending on their mood, biases, whether they have indigestion or are having a bad hair day.
In this day and age, you are crazy if you don't have a prenup, even if you don't have two nickels to rub together, because ten years from now, you may have plenty to lose.
I am curious what state this was in. I have never heard of a law where an inheritance was not considered sole and separate unless it was co-mingled. Did she put it in both of their names or use joint money to pay the expenses?
we are in california, but you are right, she did put inheritance in the join account and her husband helped her to manage that apt complex. They've been married for over 10 years. She inherited that apt around 2-3 years ago.
The apt is considered to be accumulated asset after marriage, therefore she has to give up to 40% of it. she is not a very finance savvy individual and has paid big price. She married a scumbag and she has to suffer from the consequences.
I always try to remind my close friends that please be careful whom you get married to. You would consider this person your family, be very selective and careful.
The best written prenup I have ever read is my uncle's. His prenup covered infidelity, inheritance, even lottery, residual income due to inventions, Art works, everything.
No man or woman in their right mind is going to share the family-owned Buick dealership, the family-owned 700-unit apartment community, the 200-acre farm, or even the 4-family apartment building with no mortgage with you just because you have a romantic view of marriage. (I don't have any of those, by the way.)
One of the most important and valid reasons for prenup is to avoid unnecessary debt.
A person might have a family-owned dealership TODAY, five years from now on, he might filed for bankruptcy. His spouse might have to pay for the debt that he owe if that debt is the result of the dealership.
If the dealership belongs to him and him only. His spouse might not be able to touch the profits, she is protected from the debt as well if she signed for a prenup. This is especially important if the woman is equally wealthy.
Some states have dower rights during life and in most states a spouse can elect to take against the will at death. I know of one estate where the spouse (married less than 5 years) took $70k and the kids got about $20k. Spouse gets $40k off the top and up to 50% of the rest if she elects to take against the will in my state. You can plan around it, but most people don't.
In her example she was talking about a divorce and not a death. But what happened makes sense because her friend put the apt complex in the husbands name, so wasn't kept sole and separate.
Gosh, I would love to see the language of that document. It probably isn't practical, but I was wondering if you can cut and paste in a new thread or private email (removing all personal information, of course).
Yes, this sounds fair to me.
Like I said, I've also seen where the spouse "buys in" over a 10 year period as well. That also makes a lot of sense.
lol, no I'm afraid I'm 2500 miles from that document. That is fairly common at least in this state so I have little doubt that an attorney would have any trouble with it in yours presuming it isn't contrary to law. I have never heard of this buy in stuff so I can make no comment on it but I'm thinking it is in no way used in this state. Here the law says that inheritance and gifts are not community property and not subject to the division of property or counted as a share or percentage of the joint property. This is only true so long as you don't mingle them. What is not protected is the income from them. Even when that income is not used in the course of the marriage and remains completely separate it can be counted as part of your income for determining maintenance (alimony).
Honestly I have no idea what all can be done in a prenup and it would be state dependent anyways. The document I have by the way is worthless. My lawyer whipped it out in a matter of 15 minutes or so to show me what the deal was. At the time I was heartbroken, broken all together really and the thought of ever remarrying was the last thing on my mind. So a matter of answering some questions and there it was. In actual practice the thing has to list all assets of both parties and include division of those assets specifically even though they are nominally not divisible property anyways along with any language dealing with future assets or the fruit of existing assets. The way I understand it to go down normally is that the two partners hammer out the agreement together along with an attorney who only represents one of them. The other must then take the prenup to independent council where it will be reviewed specifically in light of second parters own interests. If this is not done the prenup will be held invalid. There is also a dwell time between the signing of the prenup and the marriage that must be allowed so that there can be no question of duress. There may be further conditions that I forgot or was never told.
None of this really means anything to you, I am not an attorney and what matters here may be meaningless where you are.
Here the law says that inheritance and gifts are not community property and not subject to the division of property or counted as a share or percentage of the joint property. This is only true so long as you don't mingle them. What is not protected is the income from them. Even when that income is not used in the course of the marriage and remains completely separate it can be counted as part of your income for determining maintenance (alimony).
Yep. Huge issue, especially where there is a family business or inheritance involved. Take farming, for instance. If you are gifted or inherit part of a farm, but if your parents keep farming often times they'll issue K-1's parceling out income to you for tax reasons with there being no payout. Other times, the money just stays in the business bank account. If you're not careful, someone might try to claw back that income even if you didn't get any of it.
The other issue that worries me is increase in value. Let's say you inherit that same farm when it was farmland and a new mall goes up next to you. I don't know what the law is on that, but I would still want it to get that down on paper.
But even if you get all that stuff down on paper, if they are kids involved the court can still throw everything out the window when determining your support obligations.
The way to get around that is to have partners and a ball-busting operating/partnership agreement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crabman1
In actual practice the thing has to list all assets of both parties and include division of those assets specifically even though they are nominally not divisible property anyways along with any language dealing with future assets or the fruit of existing assets. The way I understand it to go down normally is that the two partners hammer out the agreement together along with an attorney who only represents one of them. The other must then take the prenup to independent council where it will be reviewed specifically in light of second parters own interests. If this is not done the prenup will be held invalid. There is also a dwell time between the signing of the prenup and the marriage that must be allowed so that there can be no question of duress. There may be further conditions that I forgot or was never told.
Sounds similar to the laws here: Full disclosure, ample opportunity to have an independent attorney review and negotiate, not signed under duress.
Lilyflower, agree with your points completely. Being a step parent is like being a lesser person. I want to be a full partner with my husband and the idea of sharing my finances with his kids repulses me.
I was thinking of another personal situation that affected me. My aunt had kids and married a guy with adult kids. My paternal grandparents never considered his kids their grandkids and I remember my paternal grandmother telling my mom how upset she was when my aunt (her daughter)told her she had to buy them presents. Long story short when they passed away my aunt made sure her stepkids got in the obit and made sure they inherited things from them like me and my REAL cousins did. This caused a lot of anger still in the family because they were not entitled to anything but without a will this happened.
Lilyflower, agree with your points completely. Being a step parent is like being a lesser person. I want to be a full partner with my husband and the idea of sharing my finances with his kids repulses me.
I was thinking of another personal situation that affected me. My aunt had kids and married a guy with adult kids. My paternal grandparents never considered his kids their grandkids and I remember my paternal grandmother telling my mom how upset she was when my aunt (her daughter)told her she had to buy them presents. Long story short when they passed away my aunt made sure her stepkids got in the obit and made sure they inherited things from them like me and my REAL cousins did. This caused a lot of anger still in the family because they were not entitled to anything but without a will this happened.
I don't know about other people's situation. But take my previous relationship as an example.
I was dating this single father who had rare genetic illness. He even took his own daughter out of his will. Why? He knew only too well if he die, his money would go to his ex wife who dumped him the moment she found out he was sick. (his daughter was only five years old who has absolutely no control of the money)
However, if I were to marry HIM, if I divorce him or he divorces me, half of my money would go to HIM. That money would go to his ex if he dies. Even my ex told me prenup is necessary to protect ME in this situation. At least my ex is a decent man.
When a kid has two parents (both bio mom and bio dad), why do somebody think the kid needs step parents' money for survival is beyond me.
I don't know about other people's situation. But take my previous relationship as an example.
I was dating this single father who had rare genetic illness. He even took his own daughter out of his will. Why? He knew only too well if he die, his money would go to his ex wife who dumped him the moment she found out he was sick. (his daughter was only five years old who has absolutely no control of the money)
However, if I were to marry HIM, if I divorce him or he divorces me, half of my money would go to HIM. That money would go to his ex if he dies. Even my ex told me prenup is necessary to protect ME in this situation. At least my ex is a decent man.
Scary isn't it? I know of cases where a couple divorced and the spouse with an ex and kids ended up getting things from the childless spouse. It would be beyond crazy for a childless person to marry someone with kids because even prenups don't always protect. I can't imagine things I worked hard for or my parents did to go to people who don't deserve it.
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