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No. Again, you're saying that I advised people to "purge" thoughts of certain behaviors "just because" your partner will not do them. I said, once more, that if the behaviors are degrading or sexually risky, that is why and that is when you should "purge" thoughts of them from your mind.
This is silly. If someone wants to fantasize about doing ATM or ATV, which is considered risky because butt bacteria can cause GI and vaginal infections, he or she can. There's no reason to purge them from your mind. It harms no one if someone merely thinks about it.
The kind of repression you are encouraging isn't healthy. I daresay it can backfire. Plenty of deviants out there who grew up in strict fundamentalist homes.
The following is an article by Dr. Victor Cline which discusses the many concerns over pornography’s effects on society and the individual mind, giving references throughout.
I hardly think a study targeted at protecting kids (a good thing, just not pertinent) and a study by the LDS Church is unbiased when viewed in terms of adult sexuality.
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monumentus, I'll be working all day tomorrow, just so you know. Don't think I'm ignoring you!
Temporal gaps in posting does not make me think people are ignoring me. I realise people have lives and sometimes they can reply at once - sometimes it takes some days.
What does make me think people are ignoring me however is when I write whole posts and people - like you - ignore the entire content of them and brush them under the carpet.
You - for example - gave a list of links to support your nonsense position on this topic and I dessimated the first two - and you did not - and still have not - addressed a single thing I said about them. Worse - after a few posts - you simply asserted based on nothing that those same links actually support your position - again with no reference whatsoever to my dessimation of them.
The following is a document in which the author lists other associations between pornography and violence against women, including acceptance of the rape myth and trivialization of rape.
This link is awful. It starts out with the writer declaring a bias and opinion. Studies and papers should be impartial but this one is openly - from literally the first sentence - declaring the authors bias and position. The author simply asserts - based on nothing at all - that people learn sexual behavior from pornography. This is as much apocryphal nonsense as declaring people learn how to live their life while watching James Bond. It simply assumes people are genuinely incapable of separating fact from fiction. Upon what, exactly, does this author presume to declare that people watching porn are unable to determine that they are as much engaged in watching fiction as when watching any other television show? Does the author assume that when sex is involved the average critical faculties of the watcher are magically switched off for no reason other than the author wants it to be so?
“ We also learn better when aroused” declares the author. Do we? How do we know this? The author cites no references or support for this “factoid”. It is simply asserted. Even if it IS true – lets assume it is for one moment – that in no way means we simply accept everything we see as “true” or “right” simply because we are – at that moment – more open to “learning”. If I tell you 2+2=5 you are no more likely to believe nonsense while getting a blow job than you are were I to stop you in a coffee shop having a latte.
The entire link simply asserts and assumes that the watching of porn is a learning experience – one that by its very nature of being erotic is doubly enforced. It is assertion backed up by assertion – all laid o n a foundation of assumption.
But what more can we expect from a link that is basically an entry on a Blog with an agenda rather than a peer reviewed journal? Are you really using blogs as your citations now? For real?
"A 1984 study by Dolf Zillmann of the University of Indiana and Jennings Bryant of the University of Houston found evidence that shows an exposure to non-violent pornography leads to an increased interest in violent porn." It also creates a taste for porn that portrays less commonly practiced sexual activities, including those involving the infliction of pain." In Zillman and Bryant's research featured in the Journal of Applied Social Psychology (Vol. 18, 1988) it revealed that repeated exposure to pornography results in a decreased satisfaction with one's sexual partner, with the partner's sexuality, with the partner's sexual curiosity, a decrease in the valuation of faithfulness, and a major increase in the importance of sex without attachment."
Link 4
Another blog entry. Yay.
However I am at a loss to understand how you think this supports your case. Did you actually read the text you quoted from it?
Your assertion is that "pornography is dangerous." remember. So let us read the quote above and see if anything there supports this assertion.
The first half of the quote suggests that looking at porn makes you want to see violent porn. This is asserted without much evidence but so what? That does not constitute a danger!?!?!
Unless there was some indication that looking at porn makes you want to engage in violence or violent sex what is the danger here? Let us imagine - for the sake of extreme argument - that looking at porn 100% every single time makes you want to look at porn where the actors act out a violent scene - so the hell what? Wanting to look at violent porn is not in itself harmful or dangerous. It is all acting on screen.
Where is the real and present danger caused here?
The second half of the quote asserts that porn leads to you being dissatisfied with your partner. Again poorly supported but for the sake of argument let us assume this to be 100% correct. Again: so the hell what? Is that a danger? No. It is not.
4 links so far and so far still 100% fail here to support your position.
Your use of the words "rigid" and "should" beg the question of why you get to distinguish what someone "should consider doing?"
I was vague here for a reason, and I said "something they probably should consider doing", leaving plenty of room for people to apply this advice to any sexual behavior they wish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110
This is silly. If someone wants to fantasize about doing ATM or ATV, which is considered risky because butt bacteria can cause GI and vaginal infections, he or she can. There's no reason to purge them from your mind. It harms no one if someone merely thinks about it.
The kind of repression you are encouraging isn't healthy. I daresay it can backfire. Plenty of deviants out there who grew up in strict fundamentalist homes.
There is a balance to be struck, that's inarguable. But the most recent links I posted here mention how thoughts and behavior do in fact coincide. That's in addition to all the research indicating that pornography specifically can influence both thoughts and behavior. Find me at least two studies that indicate watching people do ATM or ATV is harmful to their minds and I'll accept that as well. I've no interest to argue with facts, no matter how much they clash with my initial views.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43
I hardly think a study targeted at protecting kids (a good thing, just not pertinent) and a study by the LDS Church is unbiased when viewed in terms of adult sexuality.
That was not "a study by the LDS Church", that was a summary of decades' worth of research by Dr. Victor Cline. I tried to find a summary of this length and depth elsewhere before posting this one, but no luck. I will say, though, that if the "review" over these links by message board posters who have come out and said they're for pornography is valid, studies and meta-analyses that appear on a religious website should be considered at least equally valid. You cannot dismiss secular, empirical evidence because a religious group is using it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus
This link is awful. It starts out with the writer declaring a bias and opinion.
See above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus
The first half of the quote suggests that looking at porn makes you want to see violent porn. This is asserted without much evidence but so what? That does not constitute a danger!?!?!
Taken together with all the research on the effects on violent pornography, it certainly does. That is, aside from the obvious point regarding escalation in need to search for more "shock value" in what you're viewing. Looking through the rest of your post, I feel I should clue you in that "danger" does not have to mean physical danger in the slightest. It is term used for when anything valuable is threatened. Dissatisfaction with your partner certainly qualifies.
And now that you have finished replying to that first post, I am happy to acknowledge your dessimation! of those first two links. You're right, they did not support the position that pornography is harmful. I should've read them more carefully. Both before posting them and before defending them.
That's in addition to all the research indicating that pornography specifically can influence both thoughts and behavior.
What research is that - as the links I have looked at so far establish no such thing and one in fact wholly assumes and declares it based on nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
See above.
See above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Taken together with all the research on the effects on violent pornography, it certainly does.
It would if the research supported your stance. But it does not. I have worked through 4 of your links now and they do not in any way support your claims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
I feel I should clue you in that "danger" does not have to mean physical danger in the slightest.
Nor did I once suggest it does so this point is moot. I see no danger AT ALL - and the first 4 links I have worked through do not find any either. Perhaps the later links will do better - but I do not hold out much hope of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Dissatisfaction with your partner certainly qualifies.
That really does stretch the definition of "danger" to it's limits - even if the research indicated that. However as I said the first 4 links do not indicate that at all. The blog links however happily assert it for effect but do not base this assertion on anything. Nor - anecdotally - does any post I have read on this forum - on any of the threads on this topic - by people claiming to watch porn.
It also does not match MY anecdotal person experience as I find porn adds to my sex life with my girlfriends. As I said I am in a relationship with two girls and we use porn together and alone to enrich and supplement our sex lives - not as a crutch to support it - nor as something which causes any loss of interest of satisfaction in each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
And now that you have finished replying to that first post, I am happy to acknowledge your dessimation! of those first two links. You're right, they did not support the position that pornography is harmful. I should've read them more carefully. Both before posting them and before defending them.
That is remarkably big of you, I underestimated you. Well done - there are many here on these forums who would rather chew off their own arm than make such an admission. This is to your credit.
However it is not just the first two links - the first FOUR are failing entirely. I hold out some small hope for the remaining ones - especially as the NEXT one is the one you referenced TWICE now - but the hope is small indeed.
I will say, though, that if the "review" over these links by message board posters who have come out and said they're for pornography is valid, studies and meta-analyses that appear on a religious website should be considered at least equally valid. You cannot dismiss secular, empirical evidence because a religious group is using it.
Article with references to counter studies for you to read:
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What research is that - as the links I have looked at so far establish no such thing and one in fact wholly assumes and declares it based on nothing.
Thoughts
"A review study in 1994, based on 81 original peer-reviewed research studies (35 using aggressive stimuli and 46 using non-aggressive stimuli), concluded that 'the empirical
research on the effects of aggressive pornography shows, with fairly impressive
consistency, that exposure to these materials has a negative effect on attitudes toward
women and the perceived likelihood to rape.' The study also noted that 70 percent of
the 46 non-aggressive studies reported clear evidence of negative effects of exposure."
Lyons, J.S., Anderson, R.L. and Larsen, D., .A Systematic Review of the Effects of Aggressive and Nonaggressive Pornography,. in Zillman, Bryant & Huston (Ed.), Media, Children & the Family: Social Scientific, Psychodynamic, and Clinical Perpectives, Hillsdale, N.J., J. Erlbaum Associates, p.305
"A meta-analysis of 46 published research studies on the effects of pornography on sexual perpetration, attitudes regarding intimate relationships, and attitudes regarding the rape myth found that exposure to pornographic material puts one at increased risk for committing sexual offenses, experiencing difficulties in one’s intimate relationships, and accepting rape myths (i.e. beliefs that trivialize rape or blame the victim for the crime). Specifically, there is a 22% increase in sexual perpetration; a 20% increase in negative intimate relationships; and a 31% increase in believing rape myths. A total sample size of 12,323 people comprised the present meta-analysis. The studies confirmed the link between increased risk for negative development when exposed to pornography."
People who are ASKED about whether pornography has had any negative effects on them tend to say no. This came as no shock to me.
And in certain vague, unnamed locations, sexual crime has either decreased or not increased as pornography has become available. And of course, that could be due to anything.
I, for one, don't care much to debate whether pornography leads to increase in sexual assault in any particular nation, I will say that. The evidence relating to this question seems so evenly contradicting, it's obvious that culture and so many other factors are more powerful an influence than pornography, although I do still believe that pornography can be a powerful influence on individuals as they are compared to their peers.
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