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Thank you for the listing the interesting article links jillabean -- I found them to be very fascinating to review!
At the same time though, if as a general rule of thumb a woman takes the position that she is not going to pursue a man, what then happens if a man who likes her is very interested in her, but he isn't 100% sure if her behavior toward him is a sign of true romantic interest or if she's just being friendly? Unfortunately, not all men are good at reading body language; in fact some are downright terrible at it (including me personally, in the "terrible" category! ). In the above hypothetical example, say the guy in question thinks that the girl (who is in reality interested in him romantically) is only being friendly, based on her body language alone, and/or her rather vague verbal hints...what should he do here?? What if he concludes he doesn't have a realistic chance with her at all to begin with, and thus failure is inevitable no matter what he says or does?
For the guy, there are two fundamental paths he can take. Choice A: make a move romantically (and the associated risk of getting rejected, embarrassed, humiliated, etc.); or Choice B: play it safe, and assume that she is really only actually being friendly (and thus do not romantically pursue).
I cannot tell you how many countless times IRL when I was younger, I have had a girl come across so nice and incredibly sweet to me that it was pretty hard not to interpret their behavior as at least a small sign of romantic interest. In 99.9% of such cases, I tried to make a tactful and appropriate move romantically, only to get shot down 100% of the time. Why? Because they were only interested in friendship after all, and my attempt at romantic pursuit of them was totally counterproductive, because after I had actually pursued them romantically and the cat was out of the bag, almost all of said women were not interested in talking to me anymore at all. After these (many) rather unpleasant experiences, it seemed to be much safer for me to interpret girls' positive non-verbal hints as only friendship-based by default, and not romantic in nature. It was not until my current loving angel, that I mentioned here in an earlier post, actually told me (directly straight out and verbally!) that she was romantically-interested in me and wanted more than friendship, that this vicious cycle was broken.
For all the the ladies who say that women should never pursue, never chase, and never be direct or more specific about how they feel, etc., what happens when the guy you're actively interested in really does like you back, but because he can't determine if you like or not him and probably thinks he's only going to fail anyway if he approaches you? C'mon now, surely being a little more concrete or specific in the level of detail you show regarding your interest couldn't hurt at all? And he can still chase you, if that's what you really want...but at least be willing to show him he has a real chance, if he tries?
They haven't really lost out. If you look at it from the woman's perspective, there's more incentive not to ask than there is to ask. Odds are good that a man she is interested in won't worry so much about being rejected. KWIM?
I wonder what is the definition of that word "pursue" for everybody here.
According to wikipedia, Pursue means
pur·sue
/pərˈso͞o/
Verb Follow (someone or something) to catch or attack them.
Seek to form a sexual relationship with (someone) in a persistent way.
If you all agreed with the above definition, I wonder how many of you still believe women should "pursue" a man. Honestly speaking, if pursue means "seek to form a sexual relationship with someone in a persistent way." I don't even think MEN should be doing the pursuing. Respecting boundary is required in any healthy interpersonal relationships.
If op is talking about initiating first contact, then I believe both men and women should do what they feel comfortable with. No game playing, no dating rules, just follow the heart. Taking chances, being creative.
To me and me personally, I do judge a man's interpersonal social skills. I have rejected many men, some men handled rejection very well and gained my respect. Some men turned themselves into sour grapes and made me realize "wow, am I just lucky that I dodged the huge bullet."
I've certainly asked men out in the past and I can honestly say I've never been rejected. Many men have told me, "What a relief, I thought you never liked me." I have to say that I only asked the man out when I was almost 100% sure he would like me back. I don't like to waste my or his time. I don't like to make anybody uncomfortable.
I've always been interested in and attracted to a certain type, so that type of men normally like me for me. I am certainly not everybody's type. So as long as I have the ability, skills, right attitude, and looks to attract the men I want to attract, I can care less about the rest of the male population.
I wonder what is the definition of that word "pursue" for everybody here.
According to wikipedia, Pursue means
pur·sue
/pərˈso͞o/
Verb Follow (someone or something) to catch or attack them.
Seek to form a sexual relationship with (someone) in a persistent way.
If you all agreed with the above definition, I wonder how many of you still believe women should "pursue" a man. Honestly speaking, if pursue means "seek to form a sexual relationship with someone in a persistent way." I don't even think MEN should be doing the pursuing. Respecting boundary is required in any healthy interpersonal relationships.
If op is talking about initiating first contact, then I believe both men and women should do what they feel comfortable with. No game playing, no dating rules, just follow the heart. Taking chances, being creative.
To me and me personally, I do judge a man's interpersonal social skills. I have rejected many men, some men handled rejection very well and gained my respect. Some men turned themselves into sour grapes and made me realize "wow, am I just lucky that I dodged the huge bullet."
I've certainly asked men out in the past and I can honestly say I've never been rejected. Many men have told me, "What a relief, I thought you never liked me." I have to say that I only asked the man out when I was almost 10% sure he would like me back. I don't like to waste my or his time. I don't like to make anybody uncomfortable.
I've always been interested in and attracted to a certain type, so that type of men normally like me for me. I am certainly not everybody's type. So as long as I have the ability, skills, right attitude, and looks to attract the men I want to attract, I can care less about the rest of the male population.
I'm pretty sure no one man or women wants someone to follow and attack them unless they are into that the world is an interesting place.
The problem becomes with people put their preferences as the "right" way and generalize about others. If they are not attracted to them they are seen as less is the attitude that people don't take kind too.
Acknowledging that for every negative me, you or anyone that we see in someone another person will eat it right up would make things so much easier.
They haven't really lost out. If you look at it from the woman's perspective, there's more incentive not to ask than there is to ask. Odds are good that a man she is interested in won't worry so much about being rejected. KWIM?
Thank you for the very helpful feedback and perspective! J/c, when you had mentioned "Odds are good that a man she is interested in won't worry so much about being rejected", were you referring to man who isn't afraid of rejection's higher overall level of confidence, vs. for example a guy who has been repeatedly rejected and thus may be experiencing less total confidence? (And since confidence is nearly-universally seen as an attractive quality?) If I misinterpreted your quoted selection above, I apologize...
Thank you for the listing the interesting article links jillabean -- I found them to be very fascinating to review!
At the same time though, if as a general rule of thumb a woman takes the position that she is not going to pursue a man, what then happens if a man who likes her is very interested in her, but he isn't 100% sure if her behavior toward him is a sign of true romantic interest or if she's just being friendly? Unfortunately, not all men are good at reading body language; in fact some are downright terrible at it (including me personally, in the "terrible" category! ). In the above hypothetical example, say the guy in question thinks that the girl (who is in reality interested in him romantically) is only being friendly, based on her body language alone, and/or her rather vague verbal hints...what should he do here?? What if he concludes he doesn't have a realistic chance with her at all to begin with, and thus failure is inevitable no matter what he says or does?
For the guy, there are two fundamental paths he can take. Choice A: make a move romantically (and the associated risk of getting rejected, embarrassed, humiliated, etc.); or Choice B: play it safe, and assume that she is really only actually being friendly (and thus do not romantically pursue).
I cannot tell you how many countless times IRL when I was younger, I have had a girl come across so nice and incredibly sweet to me that it was pretty hard not to interpret their behavior as at least a small sign of romantic interest. In 99.9% of such cases, I tried to make a tactful and appropriate move romantically, only to get shot down 100% of the time. Why? Because they were only interested in friendship after all, and my attempt at romantic pursuit of them was totally counterproductive, because after I had actually pursued them romantically and the cat was out of the bag, virtually all of said women were not interested in talking to me anymore at all. After these (many) rather unpleasant experiences, it seemed to be much safer for me to interpret girls' positive non-verbal hints as only friendship-based by default, and not romantic in nature. It was not until my current loving angel, that I mentioned here in an earlier post, actually told me (directly straight out and verbally!) that she was romantically-interested in me and wanted more than friendship, that this vicious cycle was broken.
For all the ladies who say that women should never pursue, never chase, and never be direct or more specific about how they feel, etc., what happens when the guy you're actively interested in really does like you back, but because he can't determine if you like or not him and probably thinks he's only going to fail anyway if he approaches you? C'mon now, surely being a little more concrete or specific in the level of detail you show regarding your interest couldn't hurt at all? And he can still chase you, if that's what you really want...but at least be willing to show him he has a real chance, if he tries?
I don't know about others, but a recent example of mine is when I thought a man had a romantic interest and me. I was unsure if he was just shy due to him being shot down pretty hard in the past or if he had reservations because he's known me for a while and during that time I was mostly in another relationship.
I basically tried to make it easier for him by giving him some openings. I gave him a hug (a little bit longer than one would give a friend). But that didn't seem to open up anything. When we were walking, he was going a bit fast so I gently grabbed his forearm and said, "slow down, I can't keep up" and then continued holding his arm (he didn't object, but again, no response). And my last try was I kissed him goodnight--on the lips. He kissed back, but it was like kissing a relative--no passion behind it.
He's made no move toward me since, but still stays friendly and we still hang out together now and then. I figured he's not interested.
I initiated, tried to ice break but with no response from him (either good or bad really.. it's like he didn't know how to respond to be frank. I couldn't tell if he was delighted/surprised or horrified but didn't want to hurt my feelings surprised).
But I tried but I am not going to chase him. He's a good friend and a good man (a real "nice-guy" too... not a self proclaimed one). I haven't written him off, but I am moving on and looking for someone else because I would think if he was interested, he would have stepped up to the plate by now.
That's kind of my outlook on women pursuing in action.
Last edited by jillabean; 06-21-2013 at 11:04 AM..
Reason: fixed a typo :)
I'm pretty sure no one man or women wants someone to follow and attack them unless they are into that the world is an interesting place.
The problem becomes with people put their preferences as the "right" way and generalize about others. If they are not attracted to them they are seen as less is the attitude that people don't take kind too.
Acknowledging that for every negative me, you or anyone that we see in someone another person will eat it right up would make things so much easier.
Right. i agree with you.
We all have our preferences when it comes to dating.
My sister in law "pursued" (for lack of a better word here) my brother for almost one year and she obviously got what she wanted. She is now my sister in law.
Many of her girlfriends have told her "You cannot initiate, you are a fashion model, you can get anybody you wanted." To my family at least, we don't judge a person by the way she/he looks, if you ask me, she is certainly not attractive, she is way too tall (5'11"), she is way too skinny. The mere fact that her being a runway model makes me very nervous because I thought she would take advantage of my brother.
Turned out, she is a darn good woman who never listened to the silly dating rules. My brother is definitely lucky to have her. I felt very ashamed about myself because I have judged her based on my own biased personal opinions.
I think it is about time that we all accept the simple fact: we are all different, but great men are great men. We don't need to give these great men "labels". alpha, beta, omega, it really doesn't matter.
I like great men with heart of gold. I can only speak for myself obviously.
We all have our preferences when it comes to dating.
My sister in law "pursued" (for lack of a better word here) my brother for almost one year and she obviously got what she wanted. She is now my sister in law.
Many of her girlfriends have told her "You cannot initiate, you are a fashion model, you can get anybody you wanted." To my family at least, we don't judge a person by the way she/he looks, if you ask me, she is certainly not attractive, she is way too tall (5'11"), she is way too skinny. The mere fact that her being a runway model makes me very nervous because I thought she would take advantage of my brother.
Turned out, she is a darn good woman who never listened to the silly dating rules. My brother is definitely lucky to have her. I felt very ashamed about myself because I have judged her based on my own biased personal opinions.
I think it is about time that we all accept the simple fact: we are all different, but great men are great men. We don't need to give these great men "labels". alpha, beta, omega, it really doesn't matter.
I like great men with heart of gold. I can only speak for myself obviously.
Agreed also I would wish for a day where if a women comes up to me and says hi i think your cute or something along those lines she doesn't get labeled ****, easy, manly or any other stupid negative attachment.
I'm sorry but I am so tired of this feminist nonsense.
Yes, men will go out with, have sex with and even get into relationship with women who pursue them...but they usually do not marry those women. Men tend to not cherish what came so easily to them. A woman who pursues a man is NOT a challenge and most men love a challenge. The men who like to be pursued by women tend to be 'lazy' and generally are not strong men. These are the same men who want the woman to "wear the pants" and "bring home the bacon" while they sit around playing video games.
The feminist ideology has screwed up the dynamics been male/female relationship and it is such a travesty that so many women who bought into the nonsense are confused.
A lot of truth to this post, but we still CAN pursue. I'm unsure if it's wise or not but it is necessary in some circumstances. Depends on the people involved.
Agreed also I would wish for a day where if a women comes up to me and says hi i think your cute or something along those lines she doesn't get labeled ****, easy, manly or any other stupid negative attachment.
lol I sure hope not.
I think many of the guys here on city data are cute. I hope they don't label me as a **** LOL
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). In the above hypothetical example, say the guy in question thinks that the girl (who is in reality interested in him romantically) is only being friendly, based on her body language alone, and/or her rather vague verbal hints...what should he do here?? 
What if he concludes he doesn't have a realistic chance with her at all to begin with, and thus failure is inevitable no matter what he says or does?
And he can still chase you, if that's what you really want...but at least be willing to show him he has a real chance, if he tries?
