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Everybody wishes to regard himself or herself as the best possible choice. Nobody self-perceives as a consolation prize, as the second-best candidate offered a job after the first-choice rejects the offer, as the one selected for best-value instead of ultimate excellence. To be regarded as merely good-enough, is not only a back-handed insult, but implies that the selection is tentative, that it was contingent upon the dictates of circumstance and not determined conviction, and that it is therefore liable to revision. The settled-for partner can be “upgraded” once better prospects arise; or, if not upgraded, it is only because of the lethargy and sated contentment of the other party.
What is the solution? I propose this:
No relationship is foreordained by divine imperative or results from exhaustive optimization. We are all enthralled by the constraints of our environment, the tugs of appetite, the blinders of acculturation and the relentless heuristics of choosing when insufficient data informs the choice. What sanctifies the relationship is not the intrinsic excellence of the partners, but the mutual investment made through the relationship. The two partners merge together in ways that alter them from their pre-relationship state. Even if initially one or both partners were somehow inferior to some preferred (and possibly unrealistic) standard, the frictions and grindings of the relationship not only assuage that inferiority but produce an altogether new pair of people uniquely suited to each other. This is why divorce is stupid and why breakup in favor of a “better” partner is an asinine misallocation of resources, even if viewed in purely selfish terms, in terms that maximize one’s own advantage and crassly dismiss those of the other partner. To leave a “second rate” partner in favor of an “upgrade” is a disavowal of one’s investment.
I would agree, I would never leave someone unless there were severe issues that were unrelated to a "upgrade", abuse, prudishness, etc.
I won't say 'never', but I have not and don't expect to.
(Of course, I count lying in that, which some people might not. I have left partners for lying, to me or about me. AKA ethical incompatibility.)
yea lying sucks too. I will stay with my gf till I die as long as she keeps making sex a priority, indulges my kinks, spends time with me and remains an honest person. I cant ask for anything more.
When guys say stuff like, "The only way I could get a date is to lower my standards" don't you think it is an admission that perhaps their standards were too high in the first place? Guys who have made this complaint, have you thought critically about this statement? Did you have an unrealistic ideal in mind before reality hit?
Thoughts?
Admission? yes and no.
Thought about statement before critically? yes.
Unrealistic ideal in mind prior? yes and no.
My dating issues are from a combination of things.
When I was young, I was flat out clueless.
Now that I'm not around many single people my age, and also since dating has changed IMO a lot, I still struggle.
But, I HAVE lowered my standards, and yet I still fail to attract women.
It's probably just me. But I just can't seem to find out what about me that needs adjusting.
However, Lately, I have had some interesting conversations.
I guess the part that I struggle with most is when I see some guys never struggle at all at dating, while I say, "Dating shouldn't be this difficult."
One of my buddies was selling me to try Match for months. He doesn't even try to date, and women 8 years younger line up to date him. I have been on Match for almost a month now, and still not one date.
Admission? yes and no.
Thought about statement before critically? yes.
Unrealistic ideal in mind prior? yes and no.
My dating issues are from a combination of things.
When I was young, I was flat out clueless.
Now that I'm not around many single people my age, and also since dating has changed IMO a lot, I still struggle.
But, I HAVE lowered my standards, and yet I still fail to attract women.
It's probably just me. But I just can't seem to find out what about me that needs adjusting.
However, Lately, I have had some interesting conversations.
I guess the part that I struggle with most is when I see some guys never struggle at all at dating, while I say, "Dating shouldn't be this difficult."
One of my buddies was selling me to try Match for months. He doesn't even try to date, and women 8 years younger line up to date him. I have been on Match for almost a month now, and still not one date.
Everybody wishes to regard himself or herself as the best possible choice. Nobody self-perceives as a consolation prize, as the second-best candidate offered a job after the first-choice rejects the offer, as the one selected for best-value instead of ultimate excellence. To be regarded as merely good-enough, is not only a back-handed insult, but implies that the selection is tentative, that it was contingent upon the dictates of circumstance and not determined conviction, and that it is therefore liable to revision. The settled-for partner can be “upgraded” once better prospects arise; or, if not upgraded, it is only because of the lethargy and sated contentment of the other party.
What is the solution? I propose this:
No relationship is foreordained by divine imperative or results from exhaustive optimization. We are all enthralled by the constraints of our environment, the tugs of appetite, the blinders of acculturation and the relentless heuristics of choosing when insufficient data informs the choice. What sanctifies the relationship is not the intrinsic excellence of the partners, but the mutual investment made through the relationship. The two partners merge together in ways that alter them from their pre-relationship state. Even if initially one or both partners were somehow inferior to some preferred (and possibly unrealistic) standard, the frictions and grindings of the relationship not only assuage that inferiority but produce an altogether new pair of people uniquely suited to each other. This is why divorce is stupid and why breakup in favor of a “better” partner is an asinine misallocation of resources, even if viewed in purely selfish terms, in terms that maximize one’s own advantage and crassly dismiss those of the other partner. To leave a “second rate” partner in favor of an “upgrade” is a disavowal of one’s investment.
I'm just curious, do you speak just like the bolded is typed?
Those them there are a lot of big werds consecutively. Holy Moly.
After rereading the first two sentences of the bolded, and then realizing that the next few sentences were awfully smrt, I stopped scratching my head and skipped to the nom-bolded part, which was more my level of ed-u-macation. I guess that is why I'm ok with average, But I just can't sell average as good enough, or desirable.
And to stay on topic, I agree with this above post, cause it is very smart.
"What he said!"
Heh. Do you want a translation of ohio_peasant's academese?
Quote:
Nobody wants to be settled for. It's insulting, and it implies you might upgrade later -- or, if you don't it's only because you are lazy and/or not horny. This makes the relationship feel precarious.
Anyway, you can never know if you have found the absolutely optimal sweetie for you. You don't know if there is someone better around the corner, or if you are thinking too much about what other people will think, or thinking too much with your weiner, or whatever.
What matters is not how awesome your sweetie is at the beginning, but how much you are both willing to put into the relationship. A relationship changes people. It changes both parties in ways that make them more compatible than they were when they started out. Even if you start out settling, your sweetie will become more compatible with you over time.
This is why divorce is stupid and leaving one person for another is a waste of energy. Even if you don't care about the feelings of the person you are leaving. If you leave one person for supposedly better one, you waste all the energy you put into the first relationship.
Which is kind of crazy talk, really. Somebody need ta' google 'sunk costs' .
I mean, it's true that relationships change people. This has even been documented by brain scans (plus by the lived experience of all humans). And maybe sometimes they change people in ways that make them more compatible.
But those are not always healthy changes, for one or both parties. Look at abusive relationships and Stockholm syndrome, for example. The abused person changes, becomes a shadow of their former self, is completely beaten down and may be unable to function on their own. And they love their abuser. The abuser becomes more and more tyrannical (oops, big word alert!). That doesn't mean those are good changes.
And sometimes people change in ways that are healthy for that person, but make them less compatible with their partner. This is sad, but it happens. It's not true that people only change in ways that make for a better relationship.
I trust O_P will correct any mistakes in translation.
Last edited by NilaJones; 07-16-2013 at 05:24 PM..
Admission? yes and no.
Thought about statement before critically? yes.
Unrealistic ideal in mind prior? yes and no.
My dating issues are from a combination of things.
When I was young, I was flat out clueless.
Now that I'm not around many single people my age, and also since dating has changed IMO a lot, I still struggle.
But, I HAVE lowered my standards, and yet I still fail to attract women.
It's probably just me. But I just can't seem to find out what about me that needs adjusting.
However, Lately, I have had some interesting conversations.
I guess the part that I struggle with most is when I see some guys never struggle at all at dating, while I say, "Dating shouldn't be this difficult."
One of my buddies was selling me to try Match for months. He doesn't even try to date, and women 8 years younger line up to date him. I have been on Match for almost a month now, and still not one date.
Hey, AG. Something to keep in mind is there is no magical formula one can follow when it comes to dating and relationships. Physical attraction is one thing, and opening up what you are willing to date helps, but keep in mind that is only one dimension of dating. There are so many other variables at play.
Some guys are really fortunate in dating, others are not. There is no one thing that can be done to solve all your dating woes. And then you're going to see others who don't even try, but always seem to land a date. It was probably that way in school, too. I had to study a lot more than others just to get by. Some people had enough brain power to do the absolute minimum and still did better in the class than I did. I think most people have experienced something like this, be it in a class, a measure of physical talent, or whatever. And unfortunately, some people experience it in dating and relationships.
Nila, who did that post come from? It would help if you included who the original post was from when you quote them. The little arrow next to their name in the quote lets you go back to the original quote.
Nila, who did that post come from? It would help if you included who the original post was from when you quote them. The little arrow next to their name in the quote lets you go back to the original quote.
She said in the post that she was translating ohio-peasant's more verbose post for AverageGuy.
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