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Old 10-09-2013, 08:08 PM
 
5,121 posts, read 6,681,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman View Post
... I don't want to be second choice in a relationship, nor do I want to take responsibility for someone else's child. Also I don't want to spend my money on children unless I personally am the father.

Most relationships will always have hardships. Single moms increase those odds.
As I said in another thread, I get the not wanting to date a single mom preference.

But what I can't get is this notion that some men seem to have that dating a single mom means raising her child and paying for her child. I am sorry, but that's a bit presumptuous. Most children already have a father to be the father--they don't need mommy's boyfriend to pretend to be a father. And often the mother and father are paying to raise the child. Maybe if you are thinking in terms of marriage, I can see this line of thinking... but dating?
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,934 posts, read 35,899,827 times
Reputation: 40596
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillabean View Post
As I said in another thread, I get the not wanting to date a single mom preference.

But what I can't get is this notion that some men seem to have that dating a single mom means raising her child and paying for her child. I am sorry, but that's a bit presumptuous. Most children already have a father to be the father--they don't need mommy's boyfriend to pretend to be a father. And often the mother and father are paying to raise the child. Maybe if you are thinking in terms of marriage, I can see this line of thinking... but dating?

That is the leap I don't understand. People go from dating someone to paying for and parenting their kid? Huh? Usually the kid has a father. Even if it doesn't, it is wildly presumptuous that you'd be supporting that kid. From my experiences, it is quite a long time before any single mother will allow you to even remotely get involved in interacting with her child. Parents tend to be very protective of their kids and will only make the effort to involve the person their dating when they know they're going to be around for quite awhile. Generally, the only difference between dating single mom's and non mom's is that with the mom you have one more factor to schedule around. Ok, the ex husband has the kid this week or weekend, or the grandparents can watch the kid this night. It is just one more factor out of many.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Pa
42,757 posts, read 52,072,761 times
Reputation: 25353
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillabean View Post
As I said in another thread, I get the not wanting to date a single mom preference.

But what I can't get is this notion that some men seem to have that dating a single mom means raising her child and paying for her child. I am sorry, but that's a bit presumptuous. Most children already have a father to be the father--they don't need mommy's boyfriend to pretend to be a father. And often the mother and father are paying to raise the child. Maybe if you are thinking in terms of marriage, I can see this line of thinking... but dating?
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:26 PM
 
1,340 posts, read 1,595,691 times
Reputation: 1161
Okay now ask yourself why so many women would never want to date a guy who has his child living with him? Even though woman's age plays such a huge limiting factor.
Before you start speaking how men always hated single mothers, this isn't true. After every war, including WW2, there was a huge shortage of men and any widow in her reproductive age would get married even if she had two children with her, while many women who were both single AND virgins ended up alone, so much about it.
Pay note that widows were on price at the time as long as they weren't "around", and one of the reasosn was the fact that having a child out of wedlock was a huge shame, most folks waited for sex until marriage, marriage was much stronger institution and most of all - infertility treatments were very obscure.
Marrying a woman who had a child thus meant drastically reducing the risk of ending childless.

In today's world, lots of women sleep around because most men who sleep around aren't homosexuals either, most women among new generations are already bearing children out of wedlock (over 50% for women under 30), having sex before marriage is nothing new for vast majority of folks, and there's a huge divorce plague present.
Assuming responsibility for another man's child is counter-productive on so many levels, plus it brings LOTS of potential troubles. A woman may opt to not have any more children and lie to the guy. Like someone said - it's not about dating, most folks don't want to get involved with single mothers, but lots of guys want to have sex with them. There are plenty of good single mothers and not every story is the same, but bad thing is that most of the "evil" single mothers play their game very well - they play on the "troubled woman" card. That's the equivalent of "bad boy syndrome" among guys and so many guys have learned the lesson the hard way, only after they got trapped.

Guys have learned it the hard way over generations and now they deliberately avoid single mothers. However, there's always someone who either undervalues himself (a perfect victim) or someone who has a history behind himself as well. I.e. lots of guys who aren't well-off and who had a child with another woman and don't plan on having any more children may opt for single mothers because they have lower criteria about numerous requirements - which is perfect for them. Question is if the single mothers will accept those guys... I'm sure there are plenty of good guys in that group as well, just like there are lots of felons and morons. Yet nobody would start a thread about that, right? Everyone wants to convince other men that they SHOULD be there when the woman picks a new pokemon to be the baby daddy. Give me a break, biology matters, if it doesn't matter then the hospitals should be ordered by law to shuffle everyone's children.

On the other hand... why do I bother. Everyone knows what's best for them. The more guys opt for single mothers, the better for guys like me who don't want to. Everyone will be happy, I guess.

Last edited by nald; 10-09-2013 at 08:31 PM.. Reason: quoted the wrong post...
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:28 PM
 
6,731 posts, read 9,837,179 times
Reputation: 6843
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillabean View Post
As I said in another thread, I get the not wanting to date a single mom preference.

But what I can't get is this notion that some men seem to have that dating a single mom means raising her child and paying for her child. I am sorry, but that's a bit presumptuous. Most children already have a father to be the father--they don't need mommy's boyfriend to pretend to be a father. And often the mother and father are paying to raise the child. Maybe if you are thinking in terms of marriage, I can see this line of thinking... but dating?
I think these might be the same guys who believe that all women are gold-diggers, that men never long to have kids, and that divorce courts always impose ridiculously high child support costs.

Yes, that last part is a contradiction. These guys are not strong on logic.

You would think they would want to get in on some of that 'new bf is supported in luxury by the ex-hubby's CS checks' action.

ETA: I see that nald agrees .
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Pa
42,757 posts, read 52,072,761 times
Reputation: 25353
Quote:
Originally Posted by nald View Post
Okay now ask yourself why so many women would never want to date a guy who has his child living with him? Even though woman's age plays such a huge limiting factor.
Before you start speaking how men always hated single mothers, this isn't true. After every war, including WW2, there was a huge shortage of men and any widow in her reproductive age would get married even if she had two children with her, while many women who were both single AND virgins ended up alone, so much about it.
Pay note that widows were on price at the time as long as they weren't "around", and one of the reasosn was the fact that having a child out of wedlock was a huge shame, most folks waited for sex until marriage, marriage was much stronger institution and most of all - infertility treatments were very obscure.
Marrying a woman who had a child thus meant drastically reducing the risk of ending childless.

In today's world, lots of women sleep around because most men who sleep around aren't homosexuals either, most women among new generations are already bearing children out of wedlock (over 50% for women under 30), having sex before marriage is nothing new for vast majority of folks, and there's a huge divorce plague present.
Assuming responsibility for another man's child is counter-productive on so many levels, plus it brings LOTS of potential troubles. A woman may opt to not have any more children and lie to the guy. Like someone said - it's not about dating, most folks don't want to get involved with single mothers, but lots of guys want to have sex with them. There are plenty of good single mothers and not every story is the same, but bad thing is that most of the "evil" single mothers play their game very well - they play on the "troubled woman" card. That's the equivalent of "bad boy syndrome" among guys and so many guys have learned the lesson the hard way, only after they got trapped.

Guys have learned it the hard way over generations and now they deliberately avoid single mothers. However, there's always someone who either undervalues himself (a perfect victim) or someone who has a history behind himself as well. I.e. lots of guys who aren't well-off and who had a child with another woman and don't plan on having any more children may opt for single mothers because they have lower criteria about numerous requirements - which is perfect for them. Question is if the single mothers will accept those guys... I'm sure there are plenty of good guys in that group as well, just like there are lots of felons and morons. Yet nobody would start a thread about that, right? Everyone wants to convince other men that they SHOULD be there when the woman picks a new pokemon to be the baby daddy. Give me a break, biology matters, if it doesn't matter then the hospitals should be ordered by law to shuffle everyone's children.

On the other hand... why do I bother. Everyone knows what's best for them. The more guys opt for single mothers, the better for guys like me who don't want to. Everyone will be happy, I guess.
*clapping* Bravo Bravo you are my hero.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Pa
42,757 posts, read 52,072,761 times
Reputation: 25353
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones View Post
I think these might be the same guys who believe that all women are gold-diggers, that men never long to have kids, and that divorce courts always impose ridiculously high child support costs.

Yes, that last part is a contradiction. These guys are not strong on logic.

You would think they would want to get in on some of that 'new bf is supported in luxury by the ex-hubby's CS checks' action.

ETA: I see that nald agrees .
Haha......they wish.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:46 PM
 
6,731 posts, read 9,837,179 times
Reputation: 6843
I've been looking to see whether it's true that over 50% of US women under 30 have had kids out of wedlock.

It looks like it might be a lie.

The only sources I have found so far have been PUA/ MRA type sites.

The New York Times says:

Quote:
Among mothers of all ages, a majority — 59 percent in 2009 — are married when they have children.
Anybody have census data? Or have time to dig around this CDC site on the subject?
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:54 PM
 
1,340 posts, read 1,595,691 times
Reputation: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones View Post
I've been looking to see whether it's true that over 50% of US women under 30 have had kids out of wedlock.

It looks like it might be a lie.

The only sources I have found so far have been PUA/ MRA type sites.

The New York Times says:

Anybody have census data? Or have time to dig around this CDC site on the subject?
You hang out on those PUA/MRA sites too much then. I've had that info from huffingtonpost some 1-2 years ago. What you have is the data on ALL women of all age groups. Women under 30 are more likely to give birth out of wedlock than in marriage.
I'll spend five seconds googling to find it.

Okay:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us...iage.html?_r=0

"Published: February 17, 2012"
There you go.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:55 PM
 
529 posts, read 691,504 times
Reputation: 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillabean View Post
But what I can't get is this notion that some men seem to have that dating a single mom means raising her child and paying for her child. I am sorry, but that's a bit presumptuous. Most children already have a father to be the father--they don't need mommy's boyfriend to pretend to be a father. And often the mother and father are paying to raise the child. Maybe if you are thinking in terms of marriage, I can see this line of thinking... but dating?
It depends. If you're strictly talking about dating and no further -- which basically means "having sex" -- then, sure. But often women who are single mothers are looking for someone to marry, not just "date." So most guys approach the situation thinking "do I want to marry her?"
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