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Old 10-22-2013, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Chicago IL
1,360 posts, read 1,693,650 times
Reputation: 1295

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccentric_Bear View Post
With Japan's population decreasing and the overall population getting older I do not think it is beneficial for the economy and the future of Japan. I do agree with your stance about religion having a decreased role in society but having a low birthrate and a larger older population is going to cause problems.
I think the main issue is Japans problems with immigration and xenophobia. It is well known that the more a society becomes industrialized the lower the birth rate becomes. I mean in america and other countries their population increase comes more from immigration than the birth rates of people living within the country.
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,391 posts, read 4,481,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJS99 View Post
Why cautionary?

I personally don't get why we have to marry and have kids and set up white picket fences out of pressure, loneliness, and boredom.

A place where people in their 30s and 40s still hang out as single people and just keep casual relationships because haven't found anybody they truly, truly adore sounds preferable to me.
Cautionary because a large percentage of people in Japan are not engaging in any kind of relationships, casual or otherwise. A large percentage of men and women seem to find sex gross and unpleasant. I'm sorry, but there is something dysfunctional going on.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,648,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaybirdX View Post
I think the main issue is Japans problems with immigration and xenophobia. It is well known that the more a society becomes industrialized the lower the birth rate becomes. I mean in america and other countries their population increase comes more from immigration than the birth rates of people living within the country.
For years the Japanese encouraged immigration - but only from Latin Americans (Brazilians and Peruvians chiefly) with Japanese ancestry. Tens of thousands came, but the initiative backfired when the Latinos refused to assimilate and learn Japanese. They live in ethnic enclaves and still conduct their lives in Spanish and Portuguese. Of course, the Japanese wanted them because they looked like Japanese, but the Latins still weren't accepted as Japanese anyway.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Chicago IL
1,360 posts, read 1,693,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
For years the Japanese encouraged immigration - but only from Latin Americans (Brazilians and Peruvians chiefly) with Japanese ancestry. Tens of thousands came, but the initiative backfired when the Latinos refused to assimilate and learn Japanese. They live in ethnic enclaves and still conduct their lives in Spanish and Portuguese. Of course, the Japanese wanted them because they looked like Japanese, but the Latins still weren't accepted as Japanese anyway.
They didn't refuse to assimilate they were treated as foreigners despite being of Japanese descent. Many of them knew how to speak japanese just fine it didn't backfire because of refusal to assimulate but from the attitudes of the native born Japanese populace on the mainland because they were not "japanese" enough. So when a large group is rejected by the populace then of course they are going to make enclaves with each other that has happening all through human history.

The japanese government wanted them but the populace did not accept them. It is a lot more complicated than both of our post are making it out to be.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:09 PM
 
643 posts, read 917,867 times
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Dang interesting read.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,648,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaybirdX View Post
They didn't refuse to assimilate they were treated as foreigners despite being of Japanese descent. Many of them knew how to speak japanese just fine it didn't backfire because of refusal to assimulate but from the attitudes of the native born Japanese populace on the mainland because they were not "japanese" enough. So when a large group is rejected by the populace then of course they are going to make enclaves with each other that has happening all through human history.

The japanese government wanted them but the populace did not accept them. It is a lot more complicated than both of our post are making it out to be.
Yes, I think that is true. It is certainly complicated. The Latin immigrants had an interest in living in Japan because their roots are there - only some spoke Japanese, though, and most did not. It is certainly true that the Japanese people didn't accept the sansei as true Japanese.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Chicago IL
1,360 posts, read 1,693,650 times
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The way I see this article besides the "cautionary tale" warning and seeing an abnormality I look at it this way.

1. Japan birthrate is correlated with how they handle immigration
2. Japanese tend to have less kids out of wedlock wasn't brought up from what I read.
3 People lie a lot on survey results. And this is a survey article I am not trying to detract but when it comes to survey people do lie in a sense of giving answers they think is appropriate.

Plus I like to find the bright side of things I think its fantastic that both men and women are bucking against the super conservative expectations of their society as the world changes. Woman not want to automatically drop their jobs as soon as they marry and raise kids and men not wanting to be wage slaves is something to admire.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,228 posts, read 27,597,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
This is an interesting article which sounds like a cautionary tale for a lot of people on this forum: Why have young people in Japan stopped having sex? | World news | The Observer
I have NEVER in my life heard of Japanese stopped having sex.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:10 PM
 
1,392 posts, read 2,099,291 times
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it is very troubling for future growth

The problem with "skyrocketing costs" is that Japan is mostly built-up already. All the buildings have been built and all the capital equipment has been produced. Well, this is how most people would describe it but it's of course BULL@#!T. They just refuse to allow the economy to expand further. There's ALWAYS room to build up. There's ALWAYS ways to expand. You can knock down mountains and build on them, you could build into the sea, even with floating stuff. Maybe they could try buying land from another country. Heck, you could just build straight up, no place is completely packed to its maximum building height, and the Burj dubai recently proved just how high you can build.

It's the same thing in America - land and rent isn't naturally expensive, we've just banned building more and meeting demand with our vicious zoning laws.

They've created a disaster of their own making. Every culture that's in this **** has. We've got to stop engaging in bull!@#t. When you leave people alone, truly leave them alone and let them build and produce, and only enforce property rights, REAL property rights (hint: nobody made land, so how can you own it?), then the economy will forever keep growing. It'll grow SLOWLY, but it'll always grow forever and ever, until we get hit by an asteroid.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,228 posts, read 27,597,823 times
Reputation: 16066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuttree View Post
it is very troubling for future growth
It perhaps is. Scientific advances are essential to a technology-based economy. Thus, while immigration creates big problems, lack of it creates bigger ones.

After World War II, Japan made drastic selective changes, abandoning its military tradition and its notion of a divine emperor in favor of adopting democracy and developing an export economy.
Once again, Japan can selectively reappraise its core values, let go of those that no longer make sense, and retain the ones that still do and that give the country strength.

So far, however, this doesn’t seem to be happening.

Japan is still first world country with its unique problems. But I've never heard Japanese stopped having sex altogether.
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