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I didn't want to bring it up but I also noticed that most of the blame seems to be placed on women and their unreasonable expectations.
Anecdotal story.
I was reading the book 12-years-a-slave in anticipation of the movie. The only reason I bring this up is because in the book the main character stated that he had met up with some people and decided to travel with them and since he expected to be back in a few days he didn't bother to notify the wife or children. He just went about his business and expected her to hold things together without even knowing where he was. I was thinking about it from my perspective as a wife. I guess back then women just expected men to come and go as they pleased without asking questions or complaining?
As I was reading I thought to myself if my dh did that more than once (first time we would likely have the fight of the century) it would be grounds for divorce. So yes, I can see how times and expectations have changed but if being a wife means accepting that kind of disrespect than single is better.
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
Back in the day, no-fault divorce didn't exist. I don't think it's a coincidence that when divorce laws loosened up, people stopped staying committed to the bitter end. Instead of looking at easy divorce as a negative (people don't take marriage seriously anymore), look at the other side of the coin; women can now get out if they need to. For every divorce that happens perhaps too soon, too frivolously, there is a divorce that saved a woman's life, or her kids' well-being.
There was a lot more emphasis on marriage/family in those days. There still is, but so many other movements have popped up for singles, gays, etc. and being happy without a relationship and furthering your education for so many years, that it's opened up new doors for people who would otherwise feel like they have to settle down, or would just do it instead of doing these other things instead because of the pressure to get married. Also, the media puts more emphasis on casual sex than love which I suppose doesn't help much.
I haven't read the whole thread, and this has probably been said already, but not divorcing does not mean the marriage was a success. There were, and still are, a lot of people who led lives of quiet desperation on a good day and survived abuse on a bad for 40, 50 years. Women having to choose between that and a roof over their heads and their children's heads is not my idea of a successful relationship.
Feminist destroyed marriage, by telling women they don't "need a man".
Because we don't. We can feed ourselves and keep a roof over our own heads if we desire it, and plenty of women make enough money that a sperm donor is all that is necessary in terms of motherhood. Some would argue that is not the ideal situation, and sure, it would be nice to have two parents (of either gender), but the fact remains that women are no longer dependent on men for their survival if they so choose.
Only a codependent person or someone with a raging need to dominate and control would think it's better to be needed than wanted.
Men work all their lives to sustain a system that hates men and they also do it because they are still living under the illusion of love, only for what? My father is the pinnacle of what women look for in a husband. He did everything for my mother and she still sees him as a tool. My grandfathers were major players, treated women like objects and women gave them everything they wanted and needed.
Do you see how the first and last sentences here contradict each other? Which "system" are you talking about, that supposedly hates men? The one where men get all the plum jobs, and control politics and nearly all the wealth in the country? Clarification needed.
Back in the day, no-fault divorce didn't exist. I don't think it's a coincidence that when divorce laws loosened up, people stopped staying committed to the bitter end. Instead of looking at easy divorce as a negative (people don't take marriage seriously anymore), look at the other side of the coin; women can now get out if they need to. For every divorce that happens perhaps too soon, too frivolously, there is a divorce that saved a woman's life, or her kids' well-being.
Louis CK has a great joke about that:
Quote:
Divorce is always good news. I know that sounds weird, but it’s true because no good marriage has ever ended in divorce … That would be sad. If two people were married and they were really and they just had a great thing and then they got divorced, that would be really sad. But that has happened zero times.
People took marriage vows seriously, and understood that it took serious hard work to make a marriage work. The rest fall apart for such valid reasons
as " we have grown apart" or "Im simply not happy anymore".
I agree with this. My grandparents were all born in the early 1900's and all married young. Life was tough and couples actually needed each other if they were going to raise a family. And getting married, raising a family and staying married was what society expected of you. I don't think couples were any happier in their marriages than people are today. I know my grandparents loved each other very much but they sure had their rough times and they stuck by each other. There really wasn't much of an option, especially for the women.
My parents were the same. They married at 16 and 25. I don't think my mother was happily married but back then she had no resources. What is a woman with 4 kids, little education or work experience going to do. There was no child support or government assistance, no educational or job services.
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They come from people who have zero consistency of character, little to no moral
compass and zero control over their hormonal changes. Take a wild guess who
files most divorces? Not to worry, big brother is on standby to redistribute
wealth to the victim.
We all know why women are the ones to file most. Its been discussed to death. I believe big brother had to step in because so many men just abandoned their responsibility to their children once the marriage ended. Again, this is a big part of the reason women stayed in bad marriages. No fault divorces, child support enforcement, government resources gave them the ability to leave.
They were "successful" because women didn't have twitter and fake google numbers back then. Men didn't have to worry about getting taken to the cleaners back then in a divorce. Everybody knew their role.Today women expect for the men to continue to be traditional but if you ask them to make you some biscuits from scratch they will look at you crazy
LOL. So twitter is responsible for crappy marriages.
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Originally Posted by augiedogie
Getting divorced had a huge social stigma, and the courts were not so ready to turn over all the assets to the wife/mother. This actually gives women a financial incentive to divorce today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Bricks
Feminist destroyed marriage, by telling women they don't "need a man". Also women's expectations of marriage is based on disney cartoons and chick flicks, as opposed to our grandparents who had realistic expectations and each gender knew their place and role in the relationship.
Two questions. What exactly is their place and role? How exactly are men still traditional and women aren't?
Actually after divorce reform around the 1930's when women didn't work outside the home and divorce did happen alimony was a awarded always to the woman because she was basically a life long dependent of her husband. These days alimony can be awarded to either spouse and is based on need. Since most women work now assets and debts begin with a 50/50 split instead of having the home and kids automatically go to the wife. So actually, now days men get a better deal in divorce. Oh, unless you are referring to the time before divorce reform when women were practically chattel and just kicked out in the street upon divorce because laws prevented them from being able to earn and income and any other contribution to the marriage was ignored.
Would you really want to go back to the time when men had to take 100% financial responsibility for a wife till death do they part? I would think it a blessing that your partner is able to share that financial burden and be self supporting if you divorced.
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Originally Posted by pvande55
People did not live as long. Often died before they could divorce. In addition to all the other reasons.
What? my maternal grandparents lived to be 92 and 104, paternal grandparents 75 and 84. That's plenty of time to divorce if they had needed to.
Someone brought this up once and the discussion went towards the idea that there was a different culture, that revolved more about working at things, and fixing things that were broken. Modern culture is, if it isn't right and it is broken, throw it away and get a new one, it's easier and probably cheaper. I also feel like we are more self centered and care about ourselves first, which isn't always right.
This goes from consumerism to relationships. She has a flaw, get rid of her, there are hundreds of other people out there that are willing, and easy to attain to fill that void.
This goes from consumerism to relationships. She has a flaw, get rid of her, there are hundreds of other people out there that are willing, and easy to attain to fill that void.
If suitable partners were easy to attain, this forum and others like it wouldn't exist. Nor would so many divorces.
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