Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't know if you are commenting on my post, goldenmom7500 or just commenting, but I certainly don't believe women--in a sweeping generalisation--are overly ambitious, but rather that they are perceived differently in the working world, and perhaps beyond than men and are criticized both publicly and privately for those ambitions.
My point of reference, however, is primarily academics. But it is not likely that academics differ radically from other professions.
And I won't comment on men as the OP is about women.
I don't know if you are commenting on my post, goldenmom7500 or just commenting, but I certainly don't believe women--in a sweeping generalisation--are overly ambitious, but rather that they are perceived differently in the working world, and perhaps beyond than men and are criticized both publicly and privately for those ambitions.
My point of reference, however, is primarily academics. But it is not likely that academics differ radically from other professions.
And I won't comment on men as the OP is about women.
Yes, but I am just saying that I know of examples of women (scientists, either in academia, or government, or research organizations) who have risen to the top, but also are kind and magnanimous and are not criticized by either men or women, at least not for being "ambitious" or those typical successful woman jabs.
... From what Betty Crocker 1950 commercial did that come from?
The more interesting question would be:
Why were the Fifties different? Must be a reason for the far lower divorce rate, much fewer children "raised" in broken homes, streetgangs rarely a problem, drugs under control, no AIDS epidemic, the list goes on.
I was a substitute teacher for a year. Worked in the reform school (by invitation) usually... and I noticed that few of our students came from classical, two-parent, "1950s" style homes. Never recall even once seeing a father of any pregnant sub-teen show up to pick his daughter up, take her to medical appointments, meet with the teachers.
It would seem that the stay-at-home mom is passe. Bummer. I for one do not think that is a good thing.
See, that is very interesting. I mean, I have been decimated by two, prototypical ambitious, aggressive women - one a boss, and one an aunt. These are the types who scream a lot, humiliate, control, etc.
But then, I can think of specific examples of extremely high-level women who just pull it off, who combine kindness, brilliance, and success.
I can say exactly the same about men. I have known vicious, back-biting ambitious men. And I have known men at the very, very, very top of their professions (I'm pretty much talking about Supreme Court top) who are truly wonderful human beings, and even modest and self-deprecating.
I know a particular Supreme Court justice who's a woman and she sends me a Birthday card each year.
And again about the pies.. I don't usually bake pies - I do brownies and cookies more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine
Secondly, I can't bake or cook but I can change a tire. I can also build homes, unclog pipes, and not a day goes by that I myself do not personally load box upon box of 8x11.5 printer paper into the high speed at work. I've even learned to fix high speeds better than the repair men we seemingly need to call every other day.
At work, we can't exactly fix our own computers because they're DoD.. but when mine has a problem, I tell the guy exactly what's wrong and how to fix it. More than half the time, they still waste the extra energy to do diagnostics/etc to figure out that I was right... then try at least 4 strategies before trying mine.
Then I remind them that I used to help my father run a computer repair business.
Interesting point, but some women who are truly happy working hard, might like a more laid-back partner. I actually remember an article in The Washingtonian about how professional women were finding happiness with non white collar types (I don't want to say non-professional) - like carpenters, plumbers, etc. Now, my ambitious Aunt married young and last I checked is resentful that she ended up with a man with low earning power.
If you are a lawyer, for example, do you really want to come home and talk to another lawyer, or do you want to talk to a naturalist, or something else that is interesting? Bad example.
Goldenmom7500, it's nice to know that there are other ladies like you - and Kuharai! - that respect my perspective.
"ego driven" people ----a behavioral science term referred to the person that got knocked down in life and then had to prove to everybody (esp ex spouses) they were not a loser. these people, as a rule, are unhappy people, although financially successful. not a fun person to date.
as to working with them or under them, same rules as a woman working under a man.
a strong agressive boss will sometimes actually protect somebody under them of the opposite sex. these gender games can be played many many ways just like chess.
Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 12-02-2007 at 10:00 AM..
Reason: typo
I'm pleased and delighted to hear you've had this experience. I wish we had such equality of thought at the medical schools and academic institutions I either attended or was employed at...again, it may be an age-dependent issue.
I may have been more forceful in my thinking and replying as I was just recalling with a new acquaintance that a friend in Belo Horizonte (Brasil) was appointed Professor in the late 80s; she was the single first professor of the female gender at that time in the Brasilian research community. And much criticized for her ambition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenmom7500
Yes, but I am just saying that I know of examples of women (scientists, either in academia, or government, or research organizations) who have risen to the top, but also are kind and magnanimous and are not criticized by either men or women, at least not for being "ambitious" or those typical successful woman jabs.
This is something I've often wondered about, being a woman. How are ambitious or overachieving women perceived by both men and women (women in terms of deciding whether or not they want to be friends with an ambitious woman). How much ambition is too much? Is this intimidating to others? Have you ever decided not to pursue a relationship--friendship or otherwise--because someone was overly ambitious?
No it has never happened to me, my friends are ambitious in a good way. I am very ambitious myself and maybe a little overachieving. I am working in an office all day, 5 days a week, and I am a masseuse at night and weekends.
I'm pleased and delighted to hear you've had this experience. I wish we had such equality of thought at the medical schools and academic institutions I either attended or was employed at...again, it may be an age-dependent issue.
I may have been more forceful in my thinking and replying as I was just recalling with a new acquaintance that a friend in Belo Horizonte (Brasil) was appointed Professor in the late 80s; she was the single first professor of the female gender at that time in the Brasilian research community. And much criticized for her ambition.
Right, I mean, even though I say I know of "a few", I certainly know of a lot more who have had a lot of tears and discrimination - and I'm sure even my "few" have had their share of turbulence. I just think there are examples out there who seem to pull it off.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Redundancies aside...
