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Old 12-10-2014, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,816,424 times
Reputation: 11116

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JobZombie View Post
In my opinion I believe that marriage is for life “till death do us part” and before two people enter into marriage they should make D sure that this is the person they want to spend out the remainder of their living days on this earth with. This isn’t buying a puppy that will last for at most 18 years or so, marriage is life, marriage is real. If the two cannot or do not want to make this commitment to stay together forever upfront than perhaps marriage is not for them and I agree that in some cases marriage is way too easy to get into and from much of the commentary here it looks as if they got married without thinking it all the way through and did not want to bother putting in the work required to make it succeed.

As such divorce should be all but impossible. Perhaps if two people realized this beforehand they would seriously reconsider and save everyone a lot of unneeded grief and drama down the road as their would be no marriage to divorce from. This might also influence and encourage those that are actually genuinely serious about relationships, marriage and what lifelong commitment is all about.
JobZombie, you make some good points in your posts, and I respect your commitment to the idea of commitment.

But, have you ever been married? I ask, because I find that there are some people, including here on CD, who have very idealistic, black-and-white notions of long-term relationships and marriage. I divorced 3 months ago, and that decision to leave my marriage was NOT one that I made lightly. Truth be told, I'd been very unhappy for many years, but I had continued to stick it out - faithfully.

Having people who have never been married but who judge others for their choice to either marry or divorce is as annoying as having people who have never had kids judge others for their parenting. You simply don't know what's going to be thrown at you, or how you'll handle it, until you're in that situation. I always believed that I would be an impeccable mother. Then I had kids.

That same principle can be applied to marriage, or long-term relationships. You and others can judge me and other divorced people all you want, accuse us of refusing to work at our marriages, question our morality or our ability to commit, etc. Go ahead. I'll ask again: Have you ever been married? If not, why not? I could judge you for your inability to get married just as quickly as you appear to like to judge divorced people for their supposed refusal to stay married. How would you like that?

Until you've walked a mile in my shoes or in those of any other divorced person...well, you know the rest. I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that I made the right decision, after years of severe unhappiness, to leave my marriage. My mom, who was happily married to my dad for over 40 years and still desperately misses him, and who was always vociferously opposed to divorce, told me for years to see a divorce lawyer before I actually did. My kids - including my two sons - told me that I was doing the right thing. My daughter had been begging for us to get out for a couple of years. I won't bore you with any more details, but I will add that I am completely at peace with my decision and already feel happier and more optimistic about my future than I have in more than a decade.

My point in writing all of that is that there ARE legitimate reasons for divorce. I didn't necessarily believe that before I got married, but 22 years of marriage taught me a lot. And, if anything, it has made me feel even greater respect and admiration for people who DO remain happily together. Happily married people who still love, respect, and enjoy each other are an inspiration and a joy.

But as for people who've never been married but who get all self-righteous on the subject of marriage, be they in favor of the institution or not? Sorry, but y'all simply know way too little about it to be so sanctimonious.
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,218 posts, read 100,489,477 times
Reputation: 40198
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
I agree. I think the process to get married should be more difficult, but to get divorced should be much easier. The system right now is back assward, imo.
I so agree with you!
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Here
2,887 posts, read 2,629,098 times
Reputation: 1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
JobZombie, you make some good points in your posts, and I respect your commitment to the idea of commitment.

But as for people who've never been married but who get all self-righteous on the subject of marriage, be they in favor of the institution or not? Sorry, but y'all simply know way too little about it to be so sanctimonious.
I have not judged you and my opinion stands, “marriage is for life, till death do you part”. This is just an opinion, mine, and you have chosen for some reason to take it personally. Please do not.

You work at the relationship/marriage every single moment, there is no coasting. I have yet to be married and I have been in relationships where there were so certain conflicts, some trivial minutiae, that over the long haul just would never work out. Sometimes I think people are in a hurry, cave to social pressures, don’t think it through enough or bother putting in the work together as a team approach to make it work as all the successful marriages of my friends have had the team approach and those that failed did not. They both wanted it to work and it did. Those that don't want it to work divorce and should never married in the first place.

Those who failed at marriage obviously do not know how to make a marriage work or else they would still be married. Divorcees are experts at marriage failure, no offense intended, and this is a large part as to why I will have nothing whatsoever to do with one. The bitterness stays palpable and never seems to be able to go away. I do not need any parts of that and I take suggestions from divorcees on "what to do" and "how to marry" with a grain of salt. I listen instead to those who have been married to the same partner 35+ years for tips, suggestions, pointers, what to look for, how to marry and stay married, etc.

Marriage isn't something to be entered into lightly and I would rather take the time needed to do it right than get married just for the sake of getting married and wind up with somebody incompatible. I maintain hope that it will happen. Good things take time.
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Old 12-11-2014, 03:25 AM
 
Location: In an indoor space
7,685 posts, read 6,176,073 times
Reputation: 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
I agree. I think the process to get married should be more difficult, but to get divorced should be much easier. The system right now is back assward, imo.
Divorce is considered an industry where one gender generally profits over the other in divorce.

The typical marriage proposers getting the rusty shaft without vaseline in a matter of speaking.

But yes if the process was streamlined and it weren't "for profit" in divorce you'd hear and see more people heading to the altar for whatever long it lasts after that imo.
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Old 12-11-2014, 05:41 AM
 
3,636 posts, read 3,416,618 times
Reputation: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflyfish View Post
You can be educated without a diploma, and you can drive a vehicle without a license, but you won't be taken as seriously or have any credibility. Same with unmarried couples.
This has little to do with what I wrote I must point out. I was talking about the level of skills and commitment required to be in a marriage. How OTHER people view you for being married or not - has literally nothing to do with anything I said at all in any way.

That pointed out however - I have to heartily disagree that this is a given at all. Not being married is becoming more and more common and I have not seen any indication at all that people not married in our modern society are taken less seriously in any way than anyone else.

Perhaps it is different where you live in particular of course - I can only comment on the areas I have lived in or been to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflyfish View Post
I suppose it's possible to be in a stable unmarried relationship but it's rare.
Is it? Do you have figures on this? I have seen none but my subjective impression is not just that it is common - but becomming more and more common as time goes on. And if you read the long threads on the subject on this forum - and many others - the anecdotes of people saying "We are not married - and do not intend to be" are quite numerous.

So the basis for your thinking it is rare is not known to me I have to admit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflyfish View Post
They appeared "stable" unless you knew about his affairs and then her eventual, unfortunate suicide.
And the _exact_ same kind of anecdotes also abound in the world of the married too. So your anecdote is irrelevant and tells us nothing at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflyfish View Post
Unmarried couples usually either marry or break up.
That is a statistical nonsense sentence because any married couple likely started off as an unmarried one. So statistically your sentence is entirely useless. It is pretty much like saying "Children usually either grow up and become adults, or die".

What _would_ actually be statistically significant or interesting is if you had the figures on relative break up rates between married couples - and unmarried couples - after a certain level of commitment (such as a period of time together - moving intogether - or some other measure)
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Old 12-11-2014, 06:28 AM
 
3,201 posts, read 4,399,489 times
Reputation: 4441
according to cd forum

if you were married or in a long term relationship for lets say 5years, and you post what may be thought of as "anti-marriage" rhetoric

you are "bitter" and your opinion is misguided and irrelevant

even though a persons ideas and how they go about living day to day s driven by ones own personal experience

these threads can be posted over and over again and the result will be the same

i personally think that the vast majority of men do not gain anything from doing the "legal" marriage thing

that being said there are women out there that you just want to marry, you just do and they dont have to do a damn thng t try to coerce you into doing it... pay attention woman who are actively scouting and recruiting for "husbands"

it aint necessary.
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Old 12-11-2014, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,218 posts, read 100,489,477 times
Reputation: 40198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_TX View Post
according to cd forum

if you were married or in a long term relationship for lets say 5years, and you post what may be thought of as "anti-marriage" rhetoric

you are "bitter" and your opinion is misguided and irrelevant

even though a persons ideas and how they go about living day to day s driven by ones own personal experience

these threads can be posted over and over again and the result will be the same

i personally think that the vast majority of men do not gain anything from doing the "legal" marriage thing

that being said there are women out there that you just want to marry, you just do and they dont have to do a damn thng t try to coerce you into doing it... pay attention woman who are actively scouting and recruiting for "husbands"

it aint necessary.
I think common consensus here has been, marriage is not for everyone.

And I've never seen a married person on this forum tell anyone else they should be married, though it has been stated that children statistically thrive and succeed better in life when they come from a two parent home with a solid marriage in place. For me, as long as there are no children involved I could not careless whether people marry or not.

Unfortunately we constantly see a vocal minority of some unmarried folks here belittle the idea of marriage and speak of it in derogatory ways Respect should be a two way street.
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Old 12-11-2014, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Polynesia
2,704 posts, read 1,825,685 times
Reputation: 4826
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post

Is it? Do you have figures on this? I have seen none but my subjective impression is not just that it is common - but becomming more and more common as time goes on. And if you read the long threads on the subject on this forum - and many others - the anecdotes of people saying "We are not married - and do not intend to be" are quite numerous.

So the basis for your thinking it is rare is not known to me I have to admit.

What _would_ actually be statistically significant or interesting is if you had the figures on relative break up rates between married couples - and unmarried couples - after a certain level of commitment (such as a period of time together - moving intogether - or some other measure)
I didn't say that living together was rare, it certainly isn't. I said that stable unmarried relationships are rare. When I use the word "stable", I mean a relationship lasting ten years or more.

According to the National Center for Health Statistics, cohabitation relationships last an average of 22 months.

The average length of a USA marriage ending in divorce is 8 years (I couldn't find any data on average length of successful marriages lasting until death).

According to the Annual Review of Sociology, 55% of different-sex cohabiters marry within five years of moving in together. 40% break up within that same time period. About 10% remain in an unmarried relationship for five years or more.

I haven't seen any statistics on unmarried relationships lasting beyond 5 years. I'm sure that we'll start to see more and more of it, but it's hardly common.
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Old 12-11-2014, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Polynesia
2,704 posts, read 1,825,685 times
Reputation: 4826
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
This has little to do with what I wrote I must point out. I was talking about the level of skills and commitment required to be in a marriage. How OTHER people view you for being married or not - has literally nothing to do with anything I said at all in any way.
Yes, it does. It was a response to your comment that marriage offers no benefits aside from tax benefits.
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Old 12-12-2014, 07:13 AM
 
3,636 posts, read 3,416,618 times
Reputation: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains View Post
it has been stated that children statistically thrive and succeed better in life when they come from a two parent home with a solid marriage in place.
Yes - and every time you "state" it I always point out you have not supported it with any citation at all - which remains true today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains View Post
Unfortunately we constantly see a vocal minority of some unmarried folks here belittle the idea of marriage and speak of it in derogatory ways
I am not seeing many people doing that at all really. I know I certainly have never done any such thing.
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