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I'm serious are you putting somebody you mess with on a pedestal like they are they are the royalty and you are a peasant
But I AM a peasant!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraciousVox
I know the concept of dating outside ones league raises many hackles, but the fact is leagues do exist.
If an average looking guy has an average job in a cubicle somewhere tries dating models, he is trying to date outside of his league and will have little success. ...
What if I'm a good-looking, successful guy, but I literally live at the office and never mingle with members of the opposite sex? What's my league? What if on paper I'm a superb candidate, but I'm a sociopath? What's my league? Would I drop a league's worth if I gain 20 pounds? Would I gain a league's worth if the stock market rises and increases my net-worth by 30%? In that case, I rose by a league from 2013 to 2014. Should I now be dating hotter women?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraciousVox
Good looking rich guy marrying the chubby plain girl only happens in movies.
I'm a fairly good-lucking relatively rich guy, and I got dumped by my chubby and impoverished girlfriend, because I couldn't tolerate her yappy lapdog, and because I had a condescending attitude to her blue-collar relatives. Did I just fall into a lower league?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraciousVox
Men who desire emotional intimacy can easily get it, and women who desire sex can easily get it.
I wish that it were so simple. At this point in my life, emotional intimacy is more important to me than outright sex, yet here I am, singing in the plaintive chorus of the lonely. And I'm sure that there are plenty of women who would be thrilled with a casual sexual escapade, whose desires are thwarted simply by lack of opportunity.
What if I'm a good-looking, successful guy, but I literally live at the office and never mingle with members of the opposite sex? What's my league? What if on paper I'm a superb candidate, but I'm a sociopath? What's my league? Would I drop a league's worth if I gain 20 pounds? Would I gain a league's worth if the stock market rises and increases my net-worth by 30%? In that case, I rose by a league from 2013 to 2014. Should I now be dating hotter women?
I'm a fairly good-lucking relatively rich guy, and I got dumped by my chubby and impoverished girlfriend, because I couldn't tolerate her yappy lapdog, and because I had a condescending attitude to her blue-collar relatives. Did I just fall into a lower league?
I wish that it were so simple. At this point in my life, emotional intimacy is more important to me than outright sex, yet here I am, singing in the plaintive chorus of the lonely. And I'm sure that there are plenty of women who would be thrilled with a casual sexual escapade, whose desires are thwarted simply by lack of opportunity.
Hey there I have seen your pics and dating profile so the good looking rich guy thing you claim... Well... it falls flat.
At the end of the day, if you are getting the relationship you want, then what I have written in my Op does not apply to you.
Once again for the people who missed it : I wrote about people who consistently get the P&D or FZ treatment. If that does not happen to you, then this thread is not about you. If you know a guy you think is average so is dating a woman who you think is above average, then this thread does not apply to that guy.
This thread is about people who cannot get the relationship they desire and have a clear pattern of failure because they are consistently trying to date someone who has far more options. If you can't find someone to fulfill your emotional needs, well.. This thread is about you. You aren't as good looking as you think. Nor rich.
What if I'm a good-looking, successful guy, but I literally live at the office and never mingle with members of the opposite sex? What's my league? What if on paper I'm a superb candidate, but I'm a sociopath? What's my league? Would I drop a league's worth if I gain 20 pounds? Would I gain a league's worth if the stock market rises and increases my net-worth by 30%? In that case, I rose by a league from 2013 to 2014. Should I now be dating hotter women?
I'm a fairly good-lucking relatively rich guy, and I got dumped by my chubby and impoverished girlfriend, because I couldn't tolerate her yappy lapdog, and because I had a condescending attitude to her blue-collar relatives. Did I just fall into a lower league?
I wish that it were so simple. At this point in my life, emotional intimacy is more important to me than outright sex, yet here I am, singing in the plaintive chorus of the lonely. And I'm sure that there are plenty of women who would be thrilled with a casual sexual escapade, whose desires are thwarted simply by lack of opportunity.
Another important thing to note that you are hitting on is that sometime around mid 30s to 40 there is a polar shift. Men start taking the roll that women had in their 20's and vise versa. So if your in your late 30s or older then this makes total sense.
If you are 22 then this is a completely abnormal (I would almost think made up) situation.
I was just talking about this to a couple of younger gals I work with. Guys get put in the friend zone, and women get pumped and dumped when they make one grave mistake : dating outside of their league.
At the heart of it, the same thing happens to all loading participants. When a man hey friends zoned, he gives a woman what she wants (emotional intimacy) without getting what he needs (sex) .
When women get the P&D treatment, the opposite happens : the man gets what he wants (sex) and the woman gets left out in the cold in terms of what she wants (emotional intimacy).
what we have our hands is whole lot of people with an inflated view of their self worth on the market.
Comments?
I don't know if it has anything to do with dating outside one's league or not or market value. It basically boils down to a man or woman falling for someone that doesn't reciprocate those feelings. A man who puts himself in the "freind zone" does so in the mistaken believe that the woman will eventually fall for him and women make the mistake of having sex thinking the man who isn't into her will fall for her.
The vast majority of people really don't date or socialize "out of their league." Out of one's league is the plot of Pretty Woman or Cinderella. Most people date/hookup with social equals or near equals. Hollywood actors date other rich and famous people... college students date and hand out with other college students... middle class people meet and date other middle class people, etc. Roughly... what I mean is you don't see the rich and famous dating the college student putting herself though school working at a fast food joint.
So it all boils down to lack of attraction on the part of one party and the other party trying anything to "win" over the other in vain and hurting themselves int he process (and often blaming the other).
This is the only context in which I've "friend-zoned" someone. We were friends for years, and it was a friendship I really valued. Then suddenly, out of nowhere, he decided he wanted more. And I was thinking, "wait, no, it was great the way it was! Don't go and try to change the format!" So I explained I just didn't see him that way, and we had a great friendship going. Why mess with success? But after that, he didn't want to be friends anymore. That seems sad. I felt like he tried to pull a switcheroo. We were already in each other's friendzones, and got along great. Then suddenly....
But, I guess these things happen.
I had this happen. I met this guy and he right away wanted a relationship. Upfront I told him I saw him as nothing but a friend and we continued to be friends for years. A few years later he got mad and claimed I led him on when I didn't. I told him a friendship was the only possibility.
Btw this whole idea of pump and dump just means the woman is choosing horribly. I know plenty of attractive women who got used by men way below their league.
I know the concept of dating outside ones league raises many hackles, but the fact is leagues do exist.
If an average looking guy has an average job in a cubicle somewhere tries dating models, he is trying to date outside of his league and will have little success. At best he might get to hold an umbrella over her head while listening to her complain that she doesn't have a boyfriend.
On the flip side, if an average looking gal tries to date a $250k per year Wall street guy, at best she will find that he will shag her if she makes it effortless.
Good looking rich guy marrying the chubby plain girl only happens in movies. Ditto the Victoria's Secret model marrying the short postal worker. If you unrealistically believe you can get this level of man or woman, you do indeed have an inflated view of your self worth on the dating market.
I disagree. I've seen very attractive women with broke but attractive men, and I've seen average looking woman with unattractive overweight men(who don't have a great job either). I've seen very successful men with chubby or average looking wives, and all in between. Attraction is relative. Values are too. Ideas of success and wealth will vary. What a person looks for in a mate will vary. There are no leagues, just millions of people that feel limited and therefore never are able to go beyond that which they feel limited about. This translates into the dating world. People who even believe in the concept of leagues or in the idea that they need to look like "this" or make that amount, to attract certain partners inadvertently set themselves up for failure in ever having the relationship that he/she wants. This and the fact that it is far too difficult to understand why person Y rejected person X--yes it could be lack of attraction, but it could also be for a variety of other reasons that might have little to with Person X's looks. There are far too many attractive woman that are pumped in dumped by men of all attraction levels to even state that every situation is as simplistic as the girl had an inflated sense of worth.. Likewise there are far too many reasons and factors that one guy is friendzoned and another is not...
That being said I just think the theory that you've made is not accurate at all... If anything its a poor attempt IMO to provide an explanation for these behaviors... It doesn't take anything beyond the surface, into account. JMO...
I disagree. I've seen very attractive women with broke but attractive men, and I've seen average looking woman with unattractive overweight men(who don't have a great job either). I've seen very successful men with chubby or average looking wives, and all in between. Attraction is relative. Values are too. Ideas of success and wealth will vary. What a person looks for in a mate will vary. There are no leagues, just millions of people that feel limited and therefore never are able to go beyond that which they feel limited about. This translates into the dating world. People who even believe in the concept of leagues or in the idea that they need to look like "this" or make that amount, to attract certain partners inadvertently set themselves up for failure in ever having the relationship that he/she wants. This and the fact that it is far too difficult to understand why person Y rejected person X--yes it could be lack of attraction, but it could also be for a variety of other reasons that might have little to with Person X's looks. There are far too many attractive woman that are pumped in dumped by men of all attraction levels to even state that every situation is as simplistic as the girl had an inflated sense of worth.. Likewise there are far too many reasons and factors that one guy is friendzoned and another is not...
That being said I just think the theory that you've made is not accurate at all... If anything its a poor attempt IMO to provide an explanation for these behaviors... It doesn't take anything beyond the surface, into account. JMO...
But then why would these people feel limited? Most people dont start developing a negitive self image from one or 2 rejections, its after months or even years of rejection after rejection. Then the moment you lower your standards you start having sucess, do you think that is just coincidence?
Its not about what an impartial observer thinks about some couple its about each individuals experience. If I cant find what im looking for to save my life then suddenly when I lower those standards I start having success there is something to that than just happen chance.
I have tried this on 3 separate occasions, when I was in college I held out for years for what I wanted, lowered my standards and got something that relationship ended then I thought I would try to raise my standards again and got nothing only this time I was not foolish enough to spend years with a bottle of lotion so I lowered my standards again and boom got someone, that happened again a third time.
But then why would these people feel limited? Most people dont start developing a negitive self image from one or 2 rejections, its after months or even years of rejection after rejection. Then the moment you lower your standards you start having sucess, do you think that is just coincidence?
Its not about what an impartial observer thinks about some couple its about each individuals experience. If I cant find what im looking for to save my life then suddenly when I lower those standards I start having success there is something to that than just happen chance.
I have tried this on 3 separate occasions, when I was in college I held out for years for what I wanted, lowered my standards and got something that relationship ended then I thought I would try to raise my standards again and got nothing only this time I was not foolish enough to spend years with a bottle of lotion so I lowered my standards again and boom got someone, that happened again a third time.
I don't think anything is just a coincidence. I believe that beliefs create reality. I know it's controversial and I'm sure it might be offensive to people but it is my belief. People who feel limited, in some cases, might not even be thinking about dating necessarily but about life. Whether it be how they were raised, experiences in childhood, ideas and values projected by society, or a host of other "things" they started to form a perception and a belief about certain things, and whether it was realized, intentional or completely unintentional it might also be impacting other facets of their life. For instance, a person who on some level feels like a loser because he/she doesn't fit society's "mold"(whatever it may be) in some situation, might not realize that because they feel like a loser many of the situations that will play out in their lives will constantly reinforce the "loser" feeling--thus they will stay losing, this means that they might not ever get the girl of their dreams, they'll work dead-end jobs, etc. Anything that reinforces that "feeling" that they are losing will manifest in their life... Now this is a simplistic example... I cannot say for certain or even try to why one person developed their belief that they were limited in life(whether it be in dating or other areas), or why they feel that the way they can be successful is if they adjust what they want(as if they aren't worthy of what they truly want in life). So I cannot tell you what your underlying beliefs are about life, or about yourself. But I can tell you that, if you look around at your life, it's most often a reflection of YOU and how you feel about yourself, and your beliefs about yourself...
Again I realize this is offensive to some people and that some people might disagree with me. That's fine.... I'm just giving my own insight. And for the record I have not ever had an issue attracting the men that I want to attract(and I do believe that who I find attractive are very attractive men). Maybe I have an "inflated" ego--though arguably if I really did I wouldn't be attracting the very men I want to attract. But I do have other issues that often come into effect and I know that these are issues that have more to do with my own beliefs about myself, more than anything else.
(demographics of M over W)/earning potential of W - poverty rate
There. Go forth and date.....
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