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I was having a conversation with a female coworker. She mentioned her troubles in finding a nice guy to date and develop a relationship with over time.
I told her that the problem was simple. She's looking for a "nice guy" instead of a "good man."
So many dateless nice guys express frustration about being overlooked for the bad boy. A solid man always trumps a bad boy (or a nice guy).
Now I'll pose a question: what is the difference between a nice guy and a good man? I'm curious if the terms are synonymous in other people's eyes or if we can tease out why they're distinct.
Well of course people can use different phrases to mean the same thing, but I see the idea you're getting at.
The "Nice Guy" prototype:
- often not really nice, but passive, needy, with low self-esteem and often self-absorbed
- has a "jerk" flipside that harbors negative feelings towards women; general chip on the shoulder
- "gives to get" & becomes angry/bitter when he is not "rewarded" for niceness
- is not honest about his intentions...befriends someone with hopes of more
- has a sense of entitlement; just having the baseline of human decency means women should adore him. This is often expressed as simply lacking negatives: not a jerk, not violent, not jobless, etc.
- has little to offer besides the baseline of human decency, which is why he is defined by simply being "nice"
The "Good Guy" prototype:
- goes beyond basic human decency & "niceness", has positive qualities which define him, not just lack of negatives
- gives freely without expectation because he has a lot to give & it does not take away from his value to do so
- is kind, moral, genuine, self-sacrificing, etc, for their own sake & because he has the strength to, not because he's too "weak" to be a jerk
- is secure in his self-worth, assertive & honest about his intentions & needs & goals, & gives unselfish consideration to the needs & goals of others
- is not bitter towards women nor has a chip on his shoulder; takes responsibility for his failures, makes needed adjustments, & then moves on
I think orangeapple made a very good comparison. I would add a good man is smart enough to not take it personally when he is rejected. This is not to say he will not be disappointed or frustrated, but he is mature enough to always recover. A good man will walk away when a girl tries to friendzone him because if his affections are not mutual he knows a "friendship" is impossible. A "nice guy" allows himself to be friendzoned and masquerades as her friend.
has a sense of entitlement; just having the baseline of human decency means women should adore him. This is often expressed as simply lacking negatives: not a jerk, not violent, not jobless, etc.
This is a big one. A "nice" guy thinks that being inoffensive is a selling point, not a bare minimum.
Well of course people can use different phrases to mean the same thing, but I see the idea you're getting at.
The "Nice Guy" prototype:
- often not really nice, but passive, needy, with low self-esteem and often self-absorbed
- has a "jerk" flipside that harbors negative feelings towards women; general chip on the shoulder
- "gives to get" & becomes angry/bitter when he is not "rewarded" for niceness
- is not honest about his intentions...befriends someone with hopes of more
- has a sense of entitlement; just having the baseline of human decency means women should adore him. This is often expressed as simply lacking negatives: not a jerk, not violent, not jobless, etc.
- has little to offer besides the baseline of human decency, which is why he is defined by simply being "nice"
The "Good Guy" prototype:
- goes beyond basic human decency & "niceness", has positive qualities which define him, not just lack of negatives
- gives freely without expectation because he has a lot to give & it does not take away from his value to do so
- is kind, moral, genuine, self-sacrificing, etc, for their own sake & because he has the strength to, not because he's too "weak" to be a jerk
- is secure in his self-worth, assertive & honest about his intentions & needs & goals, & gives unselfish consideration to the needs & goals of others
- is not bitter towards women nor has a chip on his shoulder; takes responsibility for his failures, makes needed adjustments, & then moves on
How's that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
This is a big one. A "nice" guy thinks that being inoffensive is a selling point, not a bare minimum.
The problem is that you are looking at it in a vacuum.
First off, I agree being bitter is bad. I also agree that I am bitter and I work on it when I can.
Second, if you guys had a male friend who you had gotten to know over time and fell for, and you went for it and he rejected you, only to end up dating some hot girl who he really didn't know that well who was kind of a b@tch and many other people thought so, you wouldn't be all that happy about it. If that happened multiple times, it would leave a mark.
Also being rejected in volume and never being told you're attractive over a long time can leave a mark. Some of the females who are in this boat have some 'bitterness' in them too.
I mean, we are people. We expect things. When we do things for friends and family, we expect them to give us things in return. It would be the rare person who is there for friends in every moment when that friend in return is never to be found or nonresponsive and "Well, that's just OK. I never expect anything in return." I am working on being that, but still, it's hard.
I realize that harboring frustration is bad, but stuff like what I mentioned above leaves a mark. Sometimes, it takes time to get over.
I enjoy the company of men who are nice. They get some bonus points for that. However, in my experience, men who insist that they are nice, are a long way from being nice people.
It's like the very second that someone tells you that they are an honest person, grab onto your wallet with both hands to prevent them from stealing from you. It doesn't mean that I don't appreciate honest people, it is that honest people never think that they need to point out how honest they are.
Well of course people can use different phrases to mean the same thing, but I see the idea you're getting at.
The "Nice Guy" prototype:
- often not really nice, but passive, needy, with low self-esteem and often self-absorbed
- has a "jerk" flipside that harbors negative feelings towards women; general chip on the shoulder
- "gives to get" & becomes angry/bitter when he is not "rewarded" for niceness
- is not honest about his intentions...befriends someone with hopes of more
- has a sense of entitlement; just having the baseline of human decency means women should adore him. This is often expressed as simply lacking negatives: not a jerk, not violent, not jobless, etc.
- has little to offer besides the baseline of human decency, which is why he is defined by simply being "nice"
The "Good Guy" prototype:
- goes beyond basic human decency & "niceness", has positive qualities which define him, not just lack of negatives
- gives freely without expectation because he has a lot to give & it does not take away from his value to do so
- is kind, moral, genuine, self-sacrificing, etc, for their own sake & because he has the strength to, not because he's too "weak" to be a jerk
- is secure in his self-worth, assertive & honest about his intentions & needs & goals, & gives unselfish consideration to the needs & goals of others
- is not bitter towards women nor has a chip on his shoulder; takes responsibility for his failures, makes needed adjustments, & then moves on
How's that?
Excellent! Good guys (just as good women) are everywhere but they aren't always as visible as "jerks" or "nice guys" because jerks are always chasing women in some way for their ego and nice guys are desperate for any attention so when they get it women can't get rid of them because they are so clingy.
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