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The majority of the definitions listed are the ones which are congruent with the normal definition of "nice guy".
You're really proving my point here, that nice guys are in fact not hurtful, and just not your preference. You prefer the alpha males who would hurt you. Many women are like that. They would prefer to be clubbed over the head and carried to the cave. Well, if you want that, then you have to accept that your man is not going to be a nice guy, and he's not going to watch romantic comedies with you or go shopping with you or listen to your problems.
He will eventually become a beta male and do all that, yes. But initially, he won't. The guys who will do all that initially are also not sexually aggressive.
If they are manipulating the person, then by definition they are not beta males or nice guys.
Again the definition I listed was being discussed not the majority of definitions. You talked about, quoted, and made a claim on the definition I listed not the majority of definitions. So again the majority of definitions are irrelevant as they weren't being discussed.
It doesn't really prove your point that nice guys are in fact not hurtful by me stating you made a false claim on a definition I listed.
Again where did I state that nice guys are just not my preference as you seem to claim? It appears you tend to make assumptive unsupported claims such as stating the definition was written by an alpha male.
If they are manipulating the person then by your definition they are not beta males or nice guys however by others definition they are. You may not define nice guys/beta males as manipulative but others may as shown by that definition of a nice guy as one with self-centered, emotionally manipulative, misogynistic, and passive aggressive behavior.
Neutrino, you keep asserting that alpha male behavior is inherently bad and this is simply not true. Well, it is not universal, at least. You seem to have your own way of defining such things and that is your prerogative. Just know you are likely going to be speaking your own language when you talk about this stuff with others.
Generally:
Being an alpha male is neither good nor bad. It describes a personality type in which a person is naturally inclined to take charge and be a leader if a situation requires such. He is decisive and confident in his decisions.
Being a beta male is neither good nor bad. It describes a more passive personality type in which a person is content to follow someone else's lead. He is less likely to be the decision maker either due to a lack of confidence or a disinterest in the outcome. He is passive and more willing to accept outcomes than shape them.
You can have good behavioral traits and bad in BOTH types. If you think for a second that betas don't use women solely for sex you are kidding yourself. If you think that alphas are not capable of being good listeners and taking interest in their partner's needs outside of sex, then I'd be willing to bet the "78" in your user name has more to do with your IQ than the year you were born. Again, alpha and beta refer to personality types, not behavioral traits. You are lumping them together and that's a fatal flaw that will lead to oversimplified and often inaccurate descriptions of people.
As for your debate with pixie on the definition of "nice guy" you are the one who linked urban dictionary. She used your link to find a definition that flew in the face of your argument. You provided the link, now you don't like what the link has to say about "nice guys"...
As for your debate with pixie on the definition of "nice guy" you are the one who linked urban dictionary. She used your link to find a definition that flew in the face of your argument. You provided the link, now you don't like what the link has to say about "nice guys"...
The majority of the definitions listed are the ones which are congruent with the normal definition of "nice guy".
You're really proving my point here, that nice guys are in fact not hurtful, and just not your preference. You prefer the alpha males who would hurt you. Many women are like that. They would prefer to be clubbed over the head and carried to the cave. Well, if you want that, then you have to accept that your man is not going to be a nice guy, and he's not going to watch romantic comedies with you or go shopping with you or listen to your problems.
He will eventually become a beta male and do all that, yes. But initially, he won't. The guys who will do all that initially are also not sexually aggressive.
If they are manipulating the person, then by definition they are not beta males or nice guys.
I had already added my reply above before seeing this post. It sort of confirms what I suspected. You are using personality types to define behavioral traits. You are assigning all inherently bad behavior to "alpha males" and all inherently good behavior to "betas." This would be quite laughable if it were a joke or a child doing it. That it is 1) a grown man and 2) he seems to actually believe what he is saying gives me pause.
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
Being an alpha male [...] describes a personality type in which a person is naturally inclined to take charge
Right, which is bad. Dominant males want to get women by whatever means necessary, including cheating, lying, etc.
Nice guys only want it to do it the right way, by being nice.
Women prefer the alphas because most of them want to be dominated. They see this as the natural order, in which they are probably correct. In the world of lower animals, where consciousness and will are not factors, the passive male will not get as many mates as the dominant or alpha male.
But again, the consequences of being dominant are that they see women as [female dogs], they only want sex, they don't want to go shopping or see romantic comedies, etc.
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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The following is THE FIRST DEFINITION and therefore the most popular one on Urban Dictionary (they are sorted by which one has the highest number of endorsements).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
A young male who will give up countless hours of his time listening to the problems of his very attractive female friends because they need someone to talk to about their apathetic, Baywatch jock of a boyfriend because no one else will listen or genuinely care. Although always surrounded by beautiful girls the nice guy can’t get a girlfriend or even facilitate the alleviation of certain “drives” because his “ordinary” physical appearance will forever be compared to the Baywatch beach bum’s.
The nice guy would never capitalize on a vulnerable girl, objectify or cheat on a girl, he will go out of his way and bend over backwards to help his “friends” and will never ask for anything in return but no matter how intelligent, understanding, humorous, compassionate, trusting or loyal the nice guy is the female cohort will always pass him up and endure any length of abuse, objectification, apathy and cold-heartedness from a man if he has physical attractiveness, fashion, big muscles and chiseled facial features.[...]
The whole ‘nice guy’ phenomenon really supports the idea that people primarily care about physical appearances and that shrewdness, selfishness and narcissism will always triumph over compassion, rapport and “inner beauty.”
That definition has 4946 thumbs up. The one that pixie quoted has 1239 thumbs up. That's why the one I quoted is listed first.
Hence, the crowd -- the users of Urban Dictionary -- agree with the normal definition of nice guy, the definition that one would derive if one looked up "nice" and "guy" in the dictionary.
The following is THE FIRST DEFINITION and therefore the most popular one on Urban Dictionary (they are sorted by which one has the highest number of endorsements).
That definition has 4946 thumbs up. The one that pixie quoted has 1239 thumbs up. That's why the one I quoted is listed first.
Hence, the crowd -- the users of Urban Dictionary -- agree with the normal definition of nice guy, the definition that one would derive if one looked up "nice" and "guy" in the dictionary.
The definition you quoted being the first and how many thumbs up it has is irrelevant as you claimed that Urban Dictionary didn't agree with the thread's definition of nice guy. Yet users of Urban Dictionary created the definition I listed and had many others liking it with it showing they do agree with such a definition for nice guys.
It seems you're not grasping that the users of Urban Dictionary also agreed with the definition I listed despite you even listing how many thumbs upped it. How many do agree is irrelevant as it disproves your claim that the users/site don't agree with the definition.
Being a natural leader is a bad thing? First time I've heard that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutrino78x
Dominant males want to get women by whatever means necessary, including cheating, lying, etc.
Ironically, I've seen this sort of behavior more out of betas than alphas. It's as if they cannot compete so they are compensating. But I am not going to make the same oversimplifications you are. Not all betas do it that way. Plenty of them are able to draw interest from eligible females simply by being themselves. Plenty of alphas do it this way too, despite the fact you wish it were not true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutrino78x
Nice guys only want it to do it the right way, by being nice.
I consider myself an alpha, that is I am a near point for point match for type-A personality traits. I have never lied to a woman to get her in bed. I have never raped a woman. I have not cheated to get a woman. I cold approached the woman who would later become my wife (decisiveness, shaping outcomes instead of accepting them). I have carried my wife's purse in the mall. I am generally nice to people I meet. Yet I am not a "nice guy" by the pop culture dating definition. And in reality I'm not trying to be a nice guy in the normal definition either. I'm just being myself.
Your point with this statement is...pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutrino78x
Women prefer the alphas because most of them want to be dominated. They see this as the natural order, in which they are probably correct. In the world of lower animals, where consciousness and will are not factors, the passive male will not get as many mates as the dominant or alpha male.
Women do not necessarily prefer alphas so much as it is naturally the alphas who are more prone to approach women and start a conversation. Before I was married I did this a lot. I never had any funny pick up lines, never used PUA "game" or any of that nonsense. I simply introduced myself and started talking. Did it always work? Of course not. Not all women are open to being cold approached. But like I said above, the woman I am now married to is someone I cold approached. You miss all the shots you don't take (Gretsky). It is not that women "prefer" alphas. It is that they respond to alphas because alphas are the ones who approach them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutrino78x
But again, the consequences of being dominant are that they see women as [female dogs], they only want sex, they don't want to go shopping or see romantic comedies, etc.
Again, a statement as flawed and gloriously inaccurate as this can only be made if the foundation of one's argument is fundamentally flawed. Once again you are prescribing behavioral traits to personality types. Dead wrong. Laughably so. I know plenty of alpha who are perfect gentlemen and defer to their wives' needs or preferences. Being an alpha does not make a guy a bad guy. Being a beta does not make a guy a good guy. The opposite of these statements is true as well. It's easy to understand if you are willing to put personality types in one column and behavioral traits in a different column. Lumping them together is intellectual laziness.
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udolipixie
The definition you quoted being the first and how many thumbs up it has is irrelevant as you claimed that Urban Dictionary didn't agree with the thread's definition of nice guy.
No, if more people voted it up that means more people agreed. The majority agree with definition number one.
By nearly a four to one margin.
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Being a natural leader is a bad thing? First time I've heard that. 
