Do women respect men they can manipulate? (date, wife, girlfriend)
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I don't see how anyone could respect a person who could be easily "manipulated," but that is a loaded word. What about "convinced," "encouraged," "persuaded," "coaxed" ...? And conversely, is a stubborn person whose opinion never changes more loveable?
Manipulating someone means you are trying to control them, and I don't see why someone would want to control someone they respected. If you actually respect a person completely, that means respecting their life decisions and actions without trying to interfere in a covert and deceitful way.
I am not sure if the OP means all that either. I think encouraging someone to go to the gym, for example, would not be the same as manipulating them in order to win all the arguments or gain an upper hand. There's something very sneaky about manipulation that isn't there in encouragement. I agree that people really shouldn't mix up the terms.
Most interactions with others are manipulations a there core.
Manipulation on its own isn't a negative thing, it's the context it's presented in and used.
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Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
Actually I agree with OP, although maybe manipulate is the wrong word. I believe she is talking about "Nice Guys" guys who change their opinions to match yours, are passive, won't ask for their needs to be met (and then act passive-aggressively or explode in toddler temper tantrums because they get resentful that their needs aren't being met), do everything but shine your shoes because they think that being of service makes a woman happy, shy away from making decisions or act wishy-washy/ask for approval that they are making the right decisions, say "that's okay" even when someone's done something that clearly shouldn't be okay with them, have poor boundaries and let themselves be taken advantage of, etc, etc.
I lose respect, and therefore attraction, to guys like this very quickly, personally. Women (at least me) first and foremost want to feel safe, want to know their guy is emotionally strong, competent, and a rock for them, and if he bends into a pretzel or acts submissive or subservient or doubtful of the wisdom of his own decisions, it's impossible to feel that way about him. If there's a hurricane on the way, I want a man who will tell me decisively "here's the plan, I'm going to do this and that, you're going to do this, we're going to go here and don't worry, Baby, we're going to be fine, I'll take care of it", and to know that he is capable of making the correct decisions, not a guy who's going to say "OMG, what should we do???" and I have to take charge and comfort HIM.
I could not agree with you more on all points here. Every women looks to and for strength in a man EXCEPT the manipulative person. Compromise is discussed between two people and come to an mutual agreement while with manipulation, someone just surrenders their respect/opinions/decision to an undeserving manipulator.
If I get out of hand with my strong will and independence (and I can at times ), I would want my man to look at me at say, "Look, I thought about this and we are going to .... I may not like it but in the end I will respect and love him all the more when he demonstrates time after time he makes wise decisions...I will learn to trust him in all aspects.
Now for those guys who automatically says "No" when you have an idea or desire, I'm out of that mess in no time flat because I can't stand someone treating me like we are in a parent/child realtionship. That's about control a different form of manipulation IMHO
I couldn't marry a guy who would allow himself to be manipulated; I would have no respect for him and why would I be with a guy I didn't respect?
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I don't see how anyone could respect a person who could be easily "manipulated," but that is a loaded word. What about "convinced," "encouraged," "persuaded," "coaxed" ...?
Those are different things. All the other words you listed involve recognition of the other person's agency, and some approximation of equality. Manipulation is about tricking someone into something you believe they would not voluntarily agree to.
In the version taught to traditional women, it's tricking them into things that you think are for their own good, or at least not harmful to them. I don't think I have ever heard a of a man doing this with a female partner -- maybe because the men who want that form of control just choose women who will do what they say anyway. This leaves, for men who manipulate, just the malignant form of manipulation.
(FYI, I have lost several male partners due to my refusal to do the traditional female kind.)
Seems like a lot of men these days are easily being manipulated by women. Many will do whatever is asked of them just to get a woman's attention or to get sex from her.
I know guys that have cut family off......emptied their bank accounts....and gotten themselves into horrible situations because they didn't have the balls to say NO.
That is their problem. I love that those guys exist in such abundance, makes me stand out all the more. I used to be more like them too(never to the extent of cutting off family.draining bank accounts, more just in attitude), so I get it. But it is their doing entirely, they could stop if they really wanted to, start hanging out with guys who get it, and change their behavior.
Until they do, guys like me will continue to grab their woman out from under them, grab the woman their are into and pursuing right out from under them, without feeling bad about it I might add. If I avoided disappointing the chumps of the world almost all worthwhile women would be off limits.
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,544 posts, read 3,597,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones
Those are different things. All the other words you listed involve recognition of the other person's agency, and some approximation of equality. Manipulation is about tricking someone into something you believe they would not voluntarily agree to.
I agree with your analysis. Those words mentioned takes into account mutual respect and equality while manipulation is 100% trickery with no regard for the person being mainipulated
In the version taught to traditional women, it's tricking them into things that you think are for their own good, or at least not harmful to them. I don't think I have ever heard a of a man doing this with a female partner -- maybe because the men who want that form of control just choose women who will do what they say anyway. This leaves, for men who manipulate, just the malignant form of manipulation.
Oh, yes there are men who manipulate but they usually use prestige, power or money to manipulate a woman. Once they feel they have control, they start with "suggesting" the women to do this or that. In short time they begin to "tell" her what to do and tend to use anger as a form of control toward the woman.
(FYI, I have lost several male partners due to my refusal to do the traditional female kind.)
LOL, I also have lost men due to this fact. A couple of attorneys, a pre med guy and a CPA; men of high recognition. The typical female would have tolerated such manipulation; I on the other hand wouldn't and couldn't.
I could not agree with you more on all points here. Every women looks to and for strength in a man EXCEPT the manipulative person. Compromise is discussed between two people and come to an mutual agreement while with manipulation, someone just surrenders their respect/opinions/decision to an undeserving manipulator.
If I get out of hand with my strong will and independence (and I can at times ), I would want my man to look at me at say, "Look, I thought about this and we are going to .... I may not like it but in the end I will respect and love him all the more when he demonstrates time after time he makes wise decisions...I will learn to trust him in all aspects.
Now for those guys who automatically says "No" when you have an idea or desire, I'm out of that mess in no time flat because I can't stand someone treating me like we are in a parent/child realtionship. That's about control a different form of manipulation IMHO
Yes, exactly! Many guys who are the former (the guy with no spine) then mistakenly think they have to act like a controlling a-hole to get girls, and wonder why that doesn't work either.
It is precisely about trust (not the "I won't cheat you" kind of trust which is important too, but "I can take care of you and protect you" type of trust. If a guy can't even decide small things in his life or doesn't trust his own decisions, how can we feel safe to trust them when it's a really big thing?
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), I would want my man to look at me at say, "Look, I thought about this and we are going to .... I may not like it but in the end I will respect and love him all the more when he demonstrates time after time he makes wise decisions...I will learn to trust him in all aspects.
