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Old 04-20-2014, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
16,961 posts, read 17,251,168 times
Reputation: 30254

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Well, I guess traditional marriages really don't work for everybody.

I guess there are no crazy ideas, only brave ones. Having kids without the marriage will always sound crazy for some people, but at least you are healthy, strong, and truly happy, I guess it is all that matters, op.
I agree.

There's plenty of couples that aren't married that's doing a wonderful job raising their kid/s.

 
Old 04-20-2014, 05:34 PM
 
6,497 posts, read 11,777,432 times
Reputation: 11123
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I've found that guys who offer up that pseudo-philosophical "It's just a piece of paper" argument are the ones who really want to keep their options open. They always have one eye on the door. Having seen a lot of people who bought into that "it's just a piece of paper" malarkey, I can pretty much say that it almost always ends up in sorrow.
Yup, my brother and his friends told me that one day.... about 20 years ago. It's because there'd be a piece of paper that keeps them from actually getting married. So, it's not "just a piece of paper."
 
Old 04-20-2014, 05:43 PM
 
12,535 posts, read 15,156,955 times
Reputation: 29087
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelstress View Post
Yup, my brother and his friends told me that one day.... about 20 years ago. It's because there'd be a piece of paper that keeps them from actually getting married. So, it's not "just a piece of paper."
Really. If it was "just" a piece of paper, it wouldn't be that big of a deal and people wouldn't have such strong opinions on it one way or the other.
 
Old 04-20-2014, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
26,684 posts, read 41,560,654 times
Reputation: 41302
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I'm a married guy with three kids. No sane woman on the planet would want this arrangement.

The thing about having kids? It's a good twenty-year commitment at the very least. Who would enter into this enterprise with a person who wasn't committed enough to give the partnership some kind of long-term stability? What's more, I've found that guys who offer up that pseudo-philosophical "It's just a piece of paper" argument are the ones who really want to keep their options open. They always have one eye on the door. Having seen a lot of people who bought into that "it's just a piece of paper" malarkey, I can pretty much say that it almost always ends up in sorrow.

What's more, that piece of paper keeps you committed to the relationship when it's not fun. And there are times when it's not. Have a couple of kids and have every single moment of your life taken up by soccer games, dance recitals, homework, housework, and a host of other things, and you'll understand this.

Here's the thing. If most men you know have felt burned by the arrangement and wrecks of negativity, then I'm thinking you need a new circle of friends. None of my friends are shrinking violets or domestic slaves. None of them feel trapped in a loveless marriage. They derive lots of satisfaction from their marriages and their children. Grow up. You can't be a teenager forever.
Thing I don't get. If people are so hard up on being married and committing to another adult forever, why do they want kids in the first place which is more of a commitment? At least if you want to call it a day in your marriage, you can divorce and once that divorce is finalized you can never talk to that person again and no one will give you about it. If you decide to stop being a parent to your kids, you will catch all kinds of for it (and rightly so) and you (if you ain't a sociopath) will feel never-ending guilt for walking out on your kids.

My parents being married was important to me, even though they were divorced before I turned 3. Their marriage helped them get assigned to the same base in the military so dad could have split custody in their divorce.

I'm very anti-marriage and childfree and will never consider either. However, I believe the best scenario for raising children is for parents to be married whether it be same-sex or opposite-sex.
 
Old 04-20-2014, 05:54 PM
 
50,191 posts, read 35,879,336 times
Reputation: 76157
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7 View Post
Well for starters, I'm not religious. I guess that means if I were speaking marriage it would be civil. I'm not trying to sound selfish, but perhaps I am. I'm not in favor of the concept. Perhaps a prenupt would work for me. I do not believe marriage is a precursor to raising a happy successful family either.
You don't seem to realize that financially, you'd be just as much on the hook by having kids and living together than you would by getting married. A pre-nup is going to be for alimony only, it will not extend to child support. There is no pre-nup that would stand up in court that sets a pre-set limit for child support or custody.
 
Old 04-20-2014, 06:18 PM
 
28,896 posts, read 53,979,333 times
Reputation: 46662
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dissenter View Post
Thing I don't get. If people are so hard up on being married and committing to another adult forever, why do they want kids in the first place which is more of a commitment? At least if you want to call it a day in your marriage, you can divorce and once that divorce is finalized you can never talk to that person again and no one will give you about it. If you decide to stop being a parent to your kids, you will catch all kinds of for it (and rightly so) and you (if you ain't a sociopath) will feel never-ending guilt for walking out on your kids.

My parents being married was important to me, even though they were divorced before I turned 3. Their marriage helped them get assigned to the same base in the military so dad could have split custody in their divorce.

I'm very anti-marriage and childfree and will never consider either. However, I believe the best scenario for raising children is for parents to be married whether it be same-sex or opposite-sex.
Exactly. I mean, the OP lives in some fantasy land, best I can tell. I guess he wants to spawn, stick around a few years and then see what alternatives there are out there. And, regardless of how much high-minded baloney one reads about marriage being a piece of paper, it is the instrument that makes a stable future for the child a great deal more certain. Oh, sure, there are marriages that don't stand the test of time. But cohabitation almost always is a great deal less permanent.

On the other side of the coin is my brother-in-law. Went to Nashville for a weekend special with a woman who predictably got pregnant. My brother did not marry her but, instead, spent the next twenty years in and out of family courts as the mother of his daughter essentially punished him. The daughter is mostly fine today, but had all kinds of issues related to the unstable family situation. To be sure, my BIL faithfully drove up to see her every other weekend and had custody of his daughter for a few weeks every summer. But that simply is not the same thing as the day-in, day-out presence of a father in her life.

I'm seeing this play out time and time again in the lives of my children's friends, the ones who had a parent who just picked up and left. My son has one friend whose dad who was just cohabitating and -- one day five years ago -- simply picked up and left in the middle of the night. Who the heck does this to a 12-year-old? The guy hasn't bothered the check back in on his own flesh-and-blood in five years. Oh, sure, he writes the child support check, but that is the bare minimum. It's funny, but it seems to be dawning on my 17-year-old son who is witnessing way too many absentee fathers among his own friends that I'll be there for him no matter what.

Hey, I know that I'm a lot of things. I know I say some things on this board that people will find exception to. But if I'm in a relationship, I'm all in, by God. In the unlikely event that MrsCPG and I ever split, wild horses could not keep me from my children. Because I have invested twenty years of my life in raising kids who are happy and independent. The problem with the OP is that he seems to think it's something he can do as a hobby, or do it on a trial basis, evidenced by his commitment phobia. I mean if the guy lacks the wherewithal to commit to the mother of his child, then how does he plan to commit to the child either?

Nope. Once you decide to have a kid, you're in it for the long haul. It's not just about baseball games and all those cute Kodak moments, for that's just dessert. It's about the diaper changing and the disappointing report cards, too. It's about staying up to make sure your kid is ready for the biology exam and attending the band concert when all you want to do is have a beer in front of Monday Night Football. It's about getting ticked at your kid when he blows off his responsibility or coming down hard on him when he is caught breaking the rules. And it's about showing him how to change a tire, how to do a good job, how to treat others, how to be a good father, how to be a good husband, and how a good relationship is supposed to be. So by not committing, you are essentially teaching the child to be feckless and jerk women around.

Fatherhood is the 10,000 little conversations that count, not the three or four windy orations. It is being counted on to walk through that door and to be on the sidelines of that game every cotton-picking day. That is being a father. It is not dipping one's toe in the water. It's not about contributing your DNA. It's about the shaping of a boy or girl into a strong and mature man or woman. And it's not something to be taken lightly.

Sorry. I know I've run on for this topic. But people who won't commit to a relationship are one thing. If you don't want marriage and children in your life, fine by me. But people who won't commit to what it takes to raise a child are another thing entirely. And for all the high-minded tomfoolery I hear about marriage being a scrap of paper, I've seen the results of what happens when both parents don't have it. It almost never turns out well.

Last edited by cpg35223; 04-20-2014 at 06:32 PM..
 
Old 04-20-2014, 11:40 PM
 
Location: USA
30,566 posts, read 21,736,528 times
Reputation: 18849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnatomicflux View Post
Well, if you're living together, splitting bills, raising children, etc, etc.......the court will probably see her as your common law wife. You're not saving yourself any headaches if you two split on less then happy terms.
Maybe in Canada, but there are only a few states left in the US that recognize Common Law marriage.

Common-law marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about a civil union and a religous ceremony. I would like to keep politicians and the government out of my business.
 
Old 04-21-2014, 05:20 AM
 
28,896 posts, read 53,979,333 times
Reputation: 46662
Robert Maranto and Michael Crouch
 
Old 04-21-2014, 06:18 AM
 
42 posts, read 30,892 times
Reputation: 35
What's stopping you? Just be upfront about it, very very early on.
 
Old 04-21-2014, 06:22 AM
 
42 posts, read 30,892 times
Reputation: 35
I do agree with this.

But we cannot stop him.

I do wonder what psychological issues there are here to unravel around marriage and commitment before having children. Just a thought to think about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Exactly. I mean, the OP lives in some fantasy land, best I can tell. I guess he wants to spawn, stick around a few years and then see what alternatives there are out there. And, regardless of how much high-minded baloney one reads about marriage being a piece of paper, it is the instrument that makes a stable future for the child a great deal more certain. Oh, sure, there are marriages that don't stand the test of time. But cohabitation almost always is a great deal less permanent.

On the other side of the coin is my brother-in-law. Went to Nashville for a weekend special with a woman who predictably got pregnant. My brother did not marry her but, instead, spent the next twenty years in and out of family courts as the mother of his daughter essentially punished him. The daughter is mostly fine today, but had all kinds of issues related to the unstable family situation. To be sure, my BIL faithfully drove up to see her every other weekend and had custody of his daughter for a few weeks every summer. But that simply is not the same thing as the day-in, day-out presence of a father in her life.

I'm seeing this play out time and time again in the lives of my children's friends, the ones who had a parent who just picked up and left. My son has one friend whose dad who was just cohabitating and -- one day five years ago -- simply picked up and left in the middle of the night. Who the heck does this to a 12-year-old? The guy hasn't bothered the check back in on his own flesh-and-blood in five years. Oh, sure, he writes the child support check, but that is the bare minimum. It's funny, but it seems to be dawning on my 17-year-old son who is witnessing way too many absentee fathers among his own friends that I'll be there for him no matter what.

Hey, I know that I'm a lot of things. I know I say some things on this board that people will find exception to. But if I'm in a relationship, I'm all in, by God. In the unlikely event that MrsCPG and I ever split, wild horses could not keep me from my children. Because I have invested twenty years of my life in raising kids who are happy and independent. The problem with the OP is that he seems to think it's something he can do as a hobby, or do it on a trial basis, evidenced by his commitment phobia. I mean if the guy lacks the wherewithal to commit to the mother of his child, then how does he plan to commit to the child either?

Nope. Once you decide to have a kid, you're in it for the long haul. It's not just about baseball games and all those cute Kodak moments, for that's just dessert. It's about the diaper changing and the disappointing report cards, too. It's about staying up to make sure your kid is ready for the biology exam and attending the band concert when all you want to do is have a beer in front of Monday Night Football. It's about getting ticked at your kid when he blows off his responsibility or coming down hard on him when he is caught breaking the rules. And it's about showing him how to change a tire, how to do a good job, how to treat others, how to be a good father, how to be a good husband, and how a good relationship is supposed to be. So by not committing, you are essentially teaching the child to be feckless and jerk women around.

Fatherhood is the 10,000 little conversations that count, not the three or four windy orations. It is being counted on to walk through that door and to be on the sidelines of that game every cotton-picking day. That is being a father. It is not dipping one's toe in the water. It's not about contributing your DNA. It's about the shaping of a boy or girl into a strong and mature man or woman. And it's not something to be taken lightly.

Sorry. I know I've run on for this topic. But people who won't commit to a relationship are one thing. If you don't want marriage and children in your life, fine by me. But people who won't commit to what it takes to raise a child are another thing entirely. And for all the high-minded tomfoolery I hear about marriage being a scrap of paper, I've seen the results of what happens when both parents don't have it. It almost never turns out well.
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