Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Relationships
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-10-2014, 05:19 PM
 
4,613 posts, read 4,783,169 times
Reputation: 4098

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1w0n View Post
I think the spirit of this thread and article was not talking about crazy being psychologically ill. IMO, there is a woman driven to act crazy, and one who acts crazy who is psychologically ill. And you are right, in the case of someone who is psychologically ill, and is a danger to themselves and others, should be evaluated by a mental health professional. If a woman is psychologically ill, she will exhibit behaviors at anytime. Whereas a woman who is provoked and reacts by acting crazy, only does so when she is provoked. So in that case a man can remove that type of behavior, by treating her with respect and compassion.

I'm concerned that your post seems to imply that women (call it "mostly", "average", or whatever) act crazy exclusively when provoked by men. Correct me if I'm wrong about that interpretation of your post.

While I would agree that the tactic of calling someone crazy to manipulate their behavior is shady, it's a two way street that APPEARS one-way. Let me explain:

Women, moreso than men, are typically more driven by their emotions. (exceptions exist, blah blah blah, I'm talking about generalities here). This causes women to appear irrational to men, and possibly even be so by comparison. And vice versa, men would appear cold-hearted to women, and possibly be so by comparison. So that goes both ways. But of the two, the more emotionally driven gender would be the one to take (more) offense by the association, by nature of being...well, more emotionally driven! Men might not like being called cold-hearted, uncaring, etc....but if they're less driven by their emotions, it won't bother them as much (or at least they don't show it).

Anyway, back to my original point. There is PLENTY of crazy out there (and I don't even mean the "ill" kind) that doesn't need to be provoked at all. My "favorite", and one of the ones I see the most often, is the one-sided text conversation. A barrage of text messages having an entire conversation over a short span of time, without any feedback. Greeting, accusation of ignoring the original text, swearing, threats, apologies, flirting, recompense, more anger, more apologies....etc. All in the course of an hour or two, sometimes less.

If this were to take place in a relationship where the recipient of these texts was known to be flighty, or to ignore/walk away from fights, etc....I'd chalk that up to provocation. But I see it happen all the time under completely "normal" circumstances (like being in a movie and thus, not texting for 2 hours).

In addition, physical violence is always crazy, provoked or not. An earlier post mentioned "throwing a pot at your head for emphasis". Provoked or not, that woman is crazy...she does not have a socially acceptable hold of her emotions. She's reacting to her feelings as you describe, but it's OVER-reacting. In your example, she'd have more than enough right to be upset and to handle the relationship as needed, but it would have to stop in lieu of throwing things. Like Lilac said in her post....guy shows up late, she lets him go alone. That is not crazy (and definitely provoked, as previously mentioned). If she were to throw a pot at him when he got home? Crazy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-10-2014, 06:28 PM
 
7,300 posts, read 6,715,725 times
Reputation: 2916
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheChocolate View Post
Great article. Been there. See it all the time in the abuse business.

Simple is the word that comes to mind.

This is great advice. But these types don't target people who can actually let it roll off their backs. They target people who can't. Otherwise, there would be nothing in it for them.
They get pleasure out of hurting women.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2014, 07:01 PM
 
2,366 posts, read 2,632,280 times
Reputation: 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1w0n View Post
I think the spirit of this thread and article was not talking about crazy being psychologically ill. IMO, there is a woman driven to act crazy, and one who acts crazy who is psychologically ill. And you are right, in the case of someone who is psychologically ill, and is a danger to themselves and others, should be evaluated by a mental health professional. If a woman is psychologically ill, she will exhibit behaviors at anytime. Whereas a woman who is provoked and reacts by acting crazy, only does so when she is provoked. So in that case a man can remove that type of behavior, by treating her with respect and compassion.
Why would a woman need to be provoked? If she is tired of being ignored, she is free to leave.

Any woman who needs attention and throws a tantrum when she does not get what she wants deserves to be alone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2014, 07:16 PM
 
4,857 posts, read 7,586,262 times
Reputation: 6394
I hear women refer to men as "psychos" just as much as men calling women "crazy".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2014, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Redwood Shores, Ca
377 posts, read 531,797 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemind31 View Post
I'm concerned that your post seems to imply that women (call it "mostly", "average", or whatever) act crazy exclusively when provoked by men. Correct me if I'm wrong about that interpretation of your post.

No, I said that there are two types of women who are typically labeled as crazy. One is the type who is provoked into it, and then you have the other type that is mentally ill, and they are actually manic, not crazy. Women are either owned by a guy's passive aggressive behavior, or they are not. It's either or. That's why some women are able to not get provoked, because they don't allow their partner to get into their head.

While I would agree that the tactic of calling someone crazy to manipulate their behavior is shady, it's a two way street that APPEARS one-way. Let me explain:


Calling someone crazy isn't really what is making them act that way. What makes women act that way, is a direct assault on their feelings. She is being disrespected, ignored, etc.....everyone has their limitations, and once it goes there, she loses it.



Women, moreso than men, are typically more driven by their emotions. (exceptions exist, blah blah blah, I'm talking about generalities here). This causes women to appear irrational to men, and possibly even be so by comparison. And vice versa, men would appear cold-hearted to women, and possibly be so by comparison. So that goes both ways. But of the two, the more emotionally driven gender would be the one to take (more) offense by the association, by nature of being...well, more emotionally driven! Men might not like being called cold-hearted, uncaring, etc....but if they're less driven by their emotions, it won't bother them as much (or at least they don't show it).


Acting cold hearted, is a tactic of passive aggression. Men can be effected by women who use passive aggression. Ever hear of someone pushing your buttons? That's PA behavior. Men tend to not admit to allowing a woman to get to him, or push his buttons, it's kind of a sign of weakness, but many men are victims of PA. I know a guy, who would go to family court, and his ex wife and her friend would do things, that would make him lose it in court. Almost every time he went to court, he was tossed in jail. Then I asked, why he was so easily baited. And he just said, she knows how to push my buttons....I told him to forget that beach, and just don't let it get to him, don't allow her to own you....the next court date he ignored her attempts, and walked out. He even heard his ex's g/f say something about how lame that he didn't get tossed in jail that time....they were doing it on purpose to get him in trouble. So men can act crazy just as badly from PA.

Anyway, back to my original point. There is PLENTY of crazy out there (and I don't even mean the "ill" kind) that doesn't need to be provoked at all. My "favorite", and one of the ones I see the most often, is the one-sided text conversation. A barrage of text messages having an entire conversation over a short span of time, without any feedback. Greeting, accusation of ignoring the original text, swearing, threats, apologies, flirting, recompense, more anger, more apologies....etc. All in the course of an hour or two, sometimes less.

The fact that the person doesn't return the texts, is PA, it's just like ignoring someone who is trying to tell you something. The fact that she continues to text, shows that the guy owns her. It's easy to control, she just stops texting, but it is much more than just not returning the text, that is making her lose control. It's a series of behavior, that the male will project to the woman.

If this were to take place in a relationship where the recipient of these texts was known to be flighty, or to ignore/walk away from fights, etc....I'd chalk that up to provocation. But I see it happen all the time under completely "normal" circumstances (like being in a movie and thus, not texting for 2 hours).

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean, and you are right, perhaps in some cases it isn't warranted, and looks crazy. Not many, typically you can stop the texts, by saying, I'm going into a store/movie/restaurant, prior, and telling them you are unavailable for the next couple of hours, and you'll text when you get out. All they want is a little acknowledgement. Trouble is that men and women think differently, and what is so clear and simple, guys will say that's stupid, and reason that making that courteous text to her, is a waste of time...when in fact it would make all the difference in the world.


In addition, physical violence is always crazy, provoked or not. An earlier post mentioned "throwing a pot at your head for emphasis". Provoked or not, that woman is crazy...she does not have a socially acceptable hold of her emotions. She's reacting to her feelings as you describe, but it's OVER-reacting.

This is a typical thought, and I get it, since I at one time didn't understand. And really I don't think you can if you aren't actually PA yourself. Who are you to determine the right amount of emotions a person has when they get upset? You really can't. PA behavior, will mask itself by reasoning like above. I thought I was totally non abusive, I have never hit a woman and never even blocked their slaps, to protect. That's was the reasoning, and it's typical thoughts, and why many men are PA.

In your example, she'd have more than enough right to be upset and to handle the relationship as needed, but it would have to stop in lieu of throwing things. Like Lilac said in her post....guy shows up late, she lets him go alone. That is not crazy (and definitely provoked, as previously mentioned). If she were to throw a pot at him when he got home? Crazy.
Yeah, but my example is an extreme, and lilac seems like someone who won't allow a guy to manipulate her. So of course she isn't going to let a guy get to her. It may cause irritation, and inconvenience, but it doesn't own her to the point of acting irrational. But that's not the type of person who is affected by PA behavior. PA, is straight manipulation. Some get owned by it, other laugh at the attempt. But unless you are the abusive, or the victim, you can never gauge the levels of abuse that goes on, thus you can't really judge a person by the level of reaction they have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2014, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Redwood Shores, Ca
377 posts, read 531,797 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyxius View Post
Why would a woman need to be provoked? If she is tired of being ignored, she is free to leave.

Any woman who needs attention and throws a tantrum when she does not get what she wants deserves to be alone.
Do you really believe that women who act that way are just crazy? That they weren't being provoked? I think many here are incapable of putting themselves in someone else's shoes. If you know a woman, who just act's bizarre, without being provoked, then she probably has mental illness and should be evaluated. However, if she is being played/manipulated/buttons pushed/provoked, then unless you know the level that she has been subjected to, you have really no way of saying if she was over reacting. You know that women can easily prevent this, and that's by ignoring the PA behavior. But that's something that both men and women don't even see, as evidenced here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2014, 08:11 PM
 
4,613 posts, read 4,783,169 times
Reputation: 4098
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1w0n View Post
Yeah, but my example is an extreme, and lilac seems like someone who won't allow a guy to manipulate her. So of course she isn't going to let a guy get to her. It may cause irritation, and inconvenience, but it doesn't own her to the point of acting irrational. But that's not the type of person who is affected by PA behavior. PA, is straight manipulation. Some get owned by it, other laugh at the attempt. But unless you are the abusive, or the victim, you can never gauge the levels of abuse that goes on, thus you can't really judge a person by the level of reaction they have.
It's gonna be hard for me to address your points with that formatting, so I'll just bullet them
  • You say there are two types of women labeled as crazy: The mentally ill and the provoked. I maintain that there is a SIGNIFICANT third category, the kind that are not mentally ill, and don't need to be provoked to act crazy. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree there.
  • I didn't imply that calling someone crazy makes them act that way. The article suggested that doing so was mentally abusive, and while I wouldn't go THAT far with the description, I generally agree if it's being done to manipulate behavior.
  • There's a difference between ACTING cold hearted and BEING cold hearted (relatively speaking). If I'm less driven by emotion than you, I'm technically more cold hearted. If that's how I am, it's no more passive-aggressive than crazy is directly aggressive.
  • Not returning texts is passive aggressive? Now THAT's crazy. Note that in the example I used, someone could easily be away from their phone for two hours. An accusation of behaving manipulative in any form (passive aggressive or otherwise) in that scenario is simply offensive.
  • I agree with you that behaving in such a way to avoid setting someone off in such a way is courteous, but there's a fine line between "courteous" and "walking on eggshells".
  • I wouldn't consider my post in any way "(determining) the amount of emotions a person has when they get upset". But we live in a world where we are expected to keep our behavior under a certain level control, according to our governmental laws. Just as a child is often provoked by their sibling to violence, a crazy person can similarly be provoked. And what do we tell a child who behaves this way? Is it wrong to FEEL like hurting someone? No. Is it wrong to do (or attempt to do) so? Yes. I have my own opinions regarding appropriate reactions when women resort to violence, but that's a different discussion.
  • A quick summary of my view, is that if someone feels they're being abused (via PA or any other form), they simply need to address the situation or leave it. Whether you intend it or not, it sounds as if people who act in a crazy fashion should be coddled (whether through preventitive courteous behavior, or any other means). And while that may in the nature of some men, I find it quite biased to EXPECT it from all men. Consider the child example. If they threw a tantrum because they were upset, you could alleviate it by giving them what they want. But this isn't always appropriate. Sometimes it certainly is, but to suggest that that sort of behavior is always because they are provoked in some fashion is simply naive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2014, 08:13 PM
 
4,613 posts, read 4,783,169 times
Reputation: 4098
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1w0n View Post
Do you really believe that women who act that way are just crazy? That they weren't being provoked? I think many here are incapable of putting themselves in someone else's shoes. If you know a woman, who just act's bizarre, without being provoked, then she probably has mental illness and should be evaluated. However, if she is being played/manipulated/buttons pushed/provoked, then unless you know the level that she has been subjected to, you have really no way of saying if she was over reacting. You know that women can easily prevent this, and that's by ignoring the PA behavior. But that's something that both men and women don't even see, as evidenced here.
In many cases, yes (and by "crazy" in this case, I mean "driven by their emotions more so than logic"). But equally common is the simple OVER reaction to being provoked. I think we're kind of on the same page with regards to how and why it happens, but are in disagreement over its acceptability.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2014, 08:19 PM
 
4,613 posts, read 4,783,169 times
Reputation: 4098
Also, to address this:

This is a typical thought, and I get it, since I at one time didn't understand. And really I don't think you can if you aren't actually PA yourself. Who are you to determine the right amount of emotions a person has when they get upset? You really can't. PA behavior, will mask itself by reasoning like above. I thought I was totally non abusive, I have never hit a woman and never even blocked their slaps, to protect. That's was the reasoning, and it's typical thoughts, and why many men are PA.

By allowing yourself to be HIT by someone who can't control their emotions, you're allowing yourself to be abused. Provoked or not, that's assault. If some woman, directly or not, angers me to the point where I slap/hit her? I'm going to jail. If someone finds themselves in a situation where they feel the only recourse is to strike someone, they need to leave/end the scenario. The above suggests that they were justified in hitting you because you were mentally abusing them and didn't realize it. That is no excuse to be hit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2014, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Redwood Shores, Ca
377 posts, read 531,797 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyxius View Post
Why would a woman need to be provoked? If she is tired of being ignored, she is free to leave.

Any woman who needs attention and throws a tantrum when she does not get what she wants deserves to be alone.
Let me guess, you have had women just go crazy, and act irrationally towards you. You've gotten them texting you novels without a reply from you....or dozens of unanswered calls, and messages...it may be so bad, you start to show your friends..how about the girl who will jump through your window as you pull away in your car, that's a good one....because if you haven't then you don't really know whats up, it's just what your friends tell you, and you know your friends all tell you every detail of their relationships?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Relationships

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top