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Old 07-29-2014, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,889,363 times
Reputation: 28563

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I saw this post about masculinity and thought it was really interesting. My sister and I were talking about something similar not long ago.

Starting roughly when I was a kid, there was an idea of girl power. Growing up my mom life lessons always included stuff like:
1. Don't tie your identity to a man
2. Make sure you can always support yourself
3. Have all your fun before you get tied down with kids
4. You can achieve anything you put your mind to

Many of her siblings got married really early, and never had a chance to live life on their own. Her younger sister never lived alone, in her own apartment until she was 55! She went straight from her parents house to hew marital home. My mom's older sister had an mentally abusive marriage. Another older sister had a physically abusive one.

My mom waited to get married, and when she left home, she joined the army, and got married at 24 (which was really late for people in her generation). She had kids late too, I arrived when she was 29. I think for my mom, she say the struggles of her sisters because they all tied their lot to their marriages, and she wanted something different for us.

I don't have brothers, and my mom had mostly sisters, so I don't really know how different things are for the boys. But for the girls, I feel like we've been trained from an early age how to form our own identities and be self-sufficient (for women under roughly 40). And our male peers have had to adapt to new roles where they are no longer the primary bread winners, success isn't defined by a job, a wife and some kids. So where does that leave us now?

Women have already been trained to have emotional independence, but have the men?

This post is long, but a good read:
A New Masculinity - Mark Manson

Quote:
What I offer is the idea of a post-masculinism, an idea of masculinity that includes conventional masculinism (dominance, achievement, sexual pursuit), but is not confined by social roles or expectations. One man’s rite of passage may be building his own boat and sailing across Lake Michigan. Another man’s rite of passage may be writing and publishing a novel. Another man’s may be living in on a beach in Cuba and volunteering with starving children. The common denominator is that we set out to establish ourselves as emotionally independent through our actions. The common denominator is taking action as individuals.

Since there’s no longer any socially universal norm for masculine achievement, we are the first generation of men that must create our own. And what’s more independent or emotionally liberating than that? It’s a true expression of your individual power and your masculinity.
What do you think?

 
Old 07-29-2014, 12:38 PM
 
432 posts, read 362,248 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I saw this post about masculinity and thought it was really interesting. My sister and I were talking about something similar not long ago.

Women have already been trained to have emotional independence, but have the men?

This post is long, but a good read:
A New Masculinity - Mark Manson

What do you think?
I have absolutely no idea who this guy is but I am the result of what he is talking about. I skimmed through that article and I understand where he's coming from, we share similar ideas actually. Whether or not it's the fault of Feminism or not, true masculinity is still something we need to fix.


All of his "products" however, you can find for free. You kind of need to know what to read and what not to though. If anything, I'd still trust Coach Corey Wayne more than anybody that sells "dating products."
 
Old 07-29-2014, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,889,363 times
Reputation: 28563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frayzer View Post
I have absolutely no idea who this guy is but I am the result of what he is talking about. I skimmed through that article and I understand where he's coming from, we share similar ideas actually. Whether or not it's the fault of Feminism or not, true masculinity is still something we need to fix.


All of his "products" however, you can find for free. You kind of need to know what to read and what not to though. If anything, I'd still trust Coach Corey Wayne more than anybody that sells "dating products."
Products? I didn't visit his website to find out what kind of new school PUA stuff he is selling. I don't care (I'm female). But he does make good sociological observations. Might add his blog too my reader.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 02:13 PM
 
3,051 posts, read 3,281,086 times
Reputation: 3959
Like most threads on CD Relationships, this one will not end well.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 04:18 PM
 
48 posts, read 50,373 times
Reputation: 105
From a woman's perspective, masculinity these days is a man that is emotionally mature, pursues his interests, has a kind, loving heart, and the ability to be vulnerable and honest in his relationships, romantic or otherwise.

I think as we advance in our culture masculinity and femininity are merging- in that men and women both are striving for many of the same things and as we do that there are fewer delineations drawn between what society accepts as a feminine or masculine trait.

Of course men and women will always be different, our biology makes sure of that, but with science, even that is being bent.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Concord, California
943 posts, read 1,004,692 times
Reputation: 3259
Thats so true CC, there's a lot of opportunistic types who can't wait to flame the heck out of whatever topic comes up. I'm surprised they haven't started yet...oh they're probably still waking up from their all night marathon battle on Warcraft.
(ha ha) I have a 13 year old son who I am raising as a single mom. I have two stable men as part of his male influences. One is my brother, the other is the husband of our really good friends who are more like grandparents to them.
My brother tends to be a 'typical' guy, I know that he's picked up a lot of his behaviors from wherever he could, being that he lacked a stable father figure himself. Stable and not addicted to substances - etc. My brother is a really good man, even though he's sort of styled himself as a kind of John Wayne, Schwarzenegger hybrid who talks like Rush Limbaugh compounded by the fact that he's an ex marine. What am I saying? EX marine?
The other male is a soft spoken intellectual from a good family and well educated, he is a very kind and patient man and a rare one for sure.
I am really glad for both of these influences, somehow out of all of this, my son is learning how to think intellectually and speak confidently and authoritatively on what he feels is important. He's learning to how to have self discipline and be diplomatic in his speech.
I think there are a lot more kids out there with two working parents who are having a harder time with their influences. Or single moms' who have no stable and good male influences for their sons. But I don't think this is just a modern problem, I think its' always been like that historically speaking there hasn't always been the ideal 'Leave it to Beaver' family.
I think that's a modern myth to give people something to model themselves after, and to identify with as a country -specifically after WWII when there were so many widowed women.
But, I digress. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject and this is just my experience and perspective.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Pa
42,763 posts, read 52,875,261 times
Reputation: 25362
Friendly easy going guys.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 05:11 PM
 
17,869 posts, read 21,002,282 times
Reputation: 13949
Canadians.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Pa
42,763 posts, read 52,875,261 times
Reputation: 25362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_Frog View Post
Canadians.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 05:23 PM
 
Location: In a place beyond human comprehension
8,923 posts, read 7,724,837 times
Reputation: 16662
Everyone has their own definition of it.

I don't really think about much to be honest.
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