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Will not read all of the responses to the OP but the word "Dutch" comes to mind...would have saved any doubts.
I'm from the very old school (Age) and always paid for any date.
Made NO difference if it were McDonalds (recent years) or a very nice Restaurant many many years back I would ask my Lady what she desired and then would order the choice stating that " My Lady will have etc etc and I will have etc etc".
I would also open any door for her.....same with getting into or out of my car....at times asked my Lady to wait until I opened the car door for her.
My late Mother taught me many manners when growing up.
Will not read all of the responses to the OP but the word "Dutch" comes to mind...would have saved any doubts.
I'm from the very old school (Age) and always paid for any date.
Made NO difference if it were McDonalds (recent years) or a very nice Restaurant many many years back I would ask my Lady what she desired and then would order the choice stating that " My Lady will have etc etc and I will have etc etc".
I would also open any door for her.....same with getting into or out of my car....at times asked my Lady to wait until I opened the car door for her.
My late Mother taught me many manners when growing up.
In the post I quoted, you suggest the "roles" that men and women bring to the table during courtship, but also indicate that the part that women play in that scenario doesn't apply during courtship.
Still not totally clear. You mean because I said I wouldn't make a dinner very early in the courting stages? I do believe that early courting is the male courting the female, the female shows appreciation and graciously receives. As the relationship grows, the woman can start giving more.
I'm not some selfish person, again it's the polarity I want, not gifts or money. The last guy I dated, yes, he paid for our early dates...but when I went to his place for dinner the first time, I brought a 6-pack of his favorite beer, and when his birthday came only a few weeks in, I brought him a giant cupcake and candles so he could have a birthday wish. I cooked dinner for him after about the 4th date. That's how women show appreciation and give back, not by tit-for-tat which seems to be what many seem to want. I also don't care about cost. My last LTR, he was unemployed when we first dated, and I had no problem suggesting free or low cost things.
The "low life" comment was a reference to all the insults thrown at the guy in the OP based on how it played out. He was, in fact, called all of those things (cheap, low life, bad manners, etc.). Ultimately, I have the same opinion of it as you describe here: they're simply not a match. Nobody did anything "wrong", they're just not compatible. But regarding your Tarzan/Jane analogy...sure, it's out there. But it's a 2-way street. "Old-fashioned" relationships (or however you want to call them) were based around more standardized roles....men do this, women do that. But its been my experience that most women that desire such a relationship have no interest in "holding up their end", so to speak. I'm sure there are men that do the same, but they rarely do so in such an outlandish fashion. As I mentioned in a previous post, there is a..(having trouble thinking of the words here)..."thicker line" between the men that want a "Jane" and the men that want a more modern woman. I don't know any men that hypocritically try to get the best of both worlds as I see so many women do. I'm not doubting they're out there, but I don't see them.
Well, you directed it to me. You can search my many posts over the years and I can assure you you won't find any where I call people names or otherwise insult them.
So how many times have you asked a guy out vs a guy asking you out?
I haven't, which is why I said IF I were to ask a man out. Number of men who have asked me out since I've been old enough to date? I don't know, 15-20? There really haven't been that many, if you consider 16 to be of dating age, which means I've been old enough to date for 24 years. However, I was with my late hubby from ages 26-34. I also didn't go out with everyone who asked and not all the dates I've been on cost money. Late Hubby and I went to a NYE party for our first date.
As for recently, in August of 2012, a friend told me about a friend of hers. He contacted me out of the blue last April. When we met (for coffee), he got there first, already had his drink and didn't offer to get one for me. So I went and got my own.
Last month, I met someone from OKC who I originally initiated contact with but he was the one to suggest meeting. He reached for the check, I reached for my wallet and he insisted on getting the check.
Tomorrow, I'm meeting someone I met speed dating for coffee. He's been persistent in getting together but I will be prepared to pay my own way.
Just my take again, but I'm old school and usually take care of everything whether it is a romantic date or taking my mom or grand parents out to dinner. Now, if I didn't make much money or she made considerably more then me I may consider splitting the bill or keeping it on the cheap.
In the OPs case: The guy asked her out to a sit down dinner, and she still pays half. She pays his way into a movie, and again splits the bill at a cheap fast food place. If I was asking women out on dates and expecting this I would not expect to get past date #2?
I am not sure what you're saying. If women want the right to vote, earn a living and not be discriminated against, we must also give up all feminine essence? I do not see the connection. Yes, I am independent and self-supporting, but in a romantic relationship I want to be the feminine one, the more submissive one, and I want the man to be the leader and be the masculine essence. It has nothing to do with my working life or my voting history or anything else of the sort.
I meant equality in relationships and thought that was obvious since this is the relationship sub. Anyway to me your feminine essence is just as equal as my masculine essence so you wanting to be submissive when the check comes really isn't fair anymore. In the old days the man paid because he usually made more money and I agree, he wanted to show his nest building qualifications. The fact you want the man to do this still today when women make just as much money as a man, (please don't try the 77 cents myth) means you want it both ways still.
What I find really ironic, is I see often on forums, many men say they hate feminists and do not want a feminist as a girlfriend, but then they set dating parameters (we each pay, or the woman takes the lead and makes the moves or even pays for the date) that all but guarantees that the only women who will date them ARE feminists. A feminine-essence woman, who many men claim to want, is not going to date a man who expects her to pay.
I love feminism because it has also freed men from having to be the wallet, the strong silent type that gets screwed over by life. Men are living longer now so yippee for feminism. It allows for equal inputs from both sides for the first time in history in a relationship. A lot of women don't like that though, they like being put on a pedestal and fawned over like an old fashioned relationship. I want equality of effort from a women in a relationship. I would respect you and expect the same in return.
I can say 1000x it has nothing to do with money and everything to do with biology and attraction and the sexual desire produced by the polarity between masculine and feminine essence, but I don't expect to change any minds here, so be it.
For you maybe not, but for lots of your sisters they still view a man as a wallet. I see it every day and its blatantly obvious in the OP going off over having to pay $4. She doesn't even realize that when she thought he would be paying she ordered a very expensive cocktail with her meal and then to her credit felt a bit guilty of using him ended up paying half and then whinged about it. She tried to use the guy as a wallet and couldn't finish. I am sure she will learn to finish in the future.
"I can say 1000x it has nothing to do with money and everything to do with biology and attraction and the sexual desire produced by the polarity between masculine and feminine essence, part of which is basic good manners and how to treat someone in a way that makes them feel valued and desired...
But you are right, some are just never going to get it. And those that don't are not dating much, if at all.
But in this case you are confusing good manners with chivalry when it's too your advantage again. If you feel valued only when a man pays, it does show you only value his wallet and not his personality. In today's society men should, and I know I do, try to have good manners and be polite to others. Chivalry is 50 years out of date. I am all for equal wages, equal rights, and would like to see all laws changed so there is no gender bias in any way. Think about the last line though and realize I mean equal penalties for BOTH sexes in ALL situations. I don't see it happening any time soon, some feminists would hate it.
And you are right about the dating, but not in the snide little way you tried to use as a throwaway line. I don't date because I have been married a long time to a wonderful woman You are in here a lot, you dating a lot are you?
Read the whole thread, this was NOT about the money - it was about a lack of manners.
Sorry When people harp about how it's NOT about the money-it's about the money. If the money meant nothing, then why make such a big deal out of "nothing"
But in this case you are confusing good manners with chivalry when it's too your advantage again. If you feel valued only when a man pays, it does show you only value his wallet and not his personality. In today's society men should, and I know I do, try to have good manners and be polite to others. Chivalry is 50 years out of date. I am all for equal wages, equal rights, and would like to see all laws changed so there is no gender bias in any way. Think about the last line though and realize I mean equal penalties for BOTH sexes in ALL situations. I don't see it happening any time soon, some feminists would hate it.
And you are right about the dating, but not in the snide little way you tried to use as a throwaway line. I don't date because I have been married a long time to a wonderful woman You are in here a lot, you dating a lot are you?
Nah, I can assure you I know the difference between good manners and chivalry.
What the OP's date did was rude and ill mannered.
He or she who invites and initiates the date pays, or should be prepared to at a bare minimum.
If guys want to go dutch on dates they should express that upfront before a woman agrees to go out with them so that the woman can then choose to accept or deny the invitation fully informed of his intentions.
Having been married, quite happily, a very long time I do not date at all, but I can assure you that I would have no problem dating every night of the week if I were so inclined
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You are in here a lot, you dating a lot are you?
