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While it's certainly more difficult to find someone who's willing to date someone like myself who is childfree, it's not impossible.
I spent about 3 years on OKCupid and did finally find someone that didn't want any kids, ever. It can be done! She had a child when she was 19 but gave the kid up because she never wanted it in the first place (religious family in Texas basically forced her into it).
I disagree. I'm child free by choice, but I don't go around announcing it like I'm proud of myself. But we live in a culture that's quick to judge people who've decided they don't want kids or don't want to get married, as if there's something wrong with us for not wanting those things. I don't expect people to admire me for daring to be different. But a lot of childfree folks get really tired of having to defend our choice. In particular, what I can't stand is when someone says I'll change my mind. Really? How do they know? Why is it so hard for them to accept that some of us just don't want kids? I've NEVER suggested I'm making the superior moral choice. Like you said, it's an ethically neutral one. But if anyone's guilty of acting like they're making the morally superior choice, it's the folks who have children. I'm referring to the ones who accuse me of being selfish for deciding not to have kids. How is that selfish? When I think of what labels to assign myself, childfree isn't one of them. But fair or unfair, we live in a world that seems to define you in terms of whether you have kids, whether you're married, whether you believe in God, and so forth. If you go against the norm, meaning you don't want kids, you don't want to get married, or you don't believe in God, then it's the rest of society that seems intent on defining you. When I look in the mirror, I don't see childfree just like I don't see atheist. Why? Because it seems awfully silly to define yourself in terms of what you're not. Childfree is like atheist. It's a totally unnecessary word, but one forced upon people like me all because of the folks who have kids or the ones who believe in God.
I don't think you read my post in its entirety.
I totally get and respect those who elect not to have children. In fact, I don't know anyone who doesn't. No problem from me, as if my opinion on the subject actually had any bearing on the decisions of others. It's the sloganeering that gets to me.
And, trust me, the Childfree By Choice camp does indeed assign moral judgment. We had three children. Two were planned and one was the 'whoops' baby. So you cannot imagine the number of horrified, pious do-gooders who weighed in on our having a third. "You know what causes that, right?" said one. "Aren't you worried about the burden you're placing on the planet?" said another. And, worst of all, "Three? It's not very stylish to have three nowadays, is it?" Yes, the guy used the word stylish. I thought my wife was going to brain the idiot with a wine bottle. And I would have held him down. By the way, our third child is a pretty amazing kid.
Think about it. When you affix a Childfree By Choice bumper sticker to your car, then you are using that as a statement of moral beliefs. It is indeed a slogan, one that advertises one's worldview, one that advertises one's choices as moral ones. It's no longer a matter of choice in that situation, but rather one of placing oneself as the ethical opposite of those who elect to have children. What's the charming term the CBC camp likes to use when they think they're only talking to one another? Oh yes. 'Breeders.' As if we're livestock or something.
Words mean things. That's why there's an enormous difference between saying "Oh, we just don't want kids" and proudly saying, "Childless By Choice" like some shibboleth or quasi political affirmation. One is indeed a matter of choice while the other is crowing about one's moral superiority.
A Childfree person would probably want to date someone else who is childfree and NOT childLESS. If they want children and don't have any, then that is not the optimal person to date!
There's no moral superiority inherent to the use of the term.
I totally get and respect those who elect not to have children. In fact, I don't know anyone who doesn't. No problem from me, as if my opinion on the subject actually had any bearing on the decisions of others. It's the sloganeering that gets to me.
And, trust me, the Childfree By Choice camp does indeed assign moral judgment. We had three children. Two were planned and one was the 'whoops' baby. So you cannot imagine the number of horrified, pious do-gooders who weighed in on our having a third. "You know what causes that, right?" said one. "Aren't you worried about the burden you're placing on the planet?" said another. And, worst of all, "Three? It's not very stylish to have three nowadays, is it?" Yes, the guy used the word stylish. I thought my wife was going to brain the idiot with a wine bottle. And I would have held him down. By the way, our third child is a pretty amazing kid.
Think about it. When you affix a Childfree By Choice bumper sticker to your car, then you are using that as a statement of moral beliefs. It is indeed a slogan, one that advertises one's worldview, one that advertises one's choices as moral ones. It's no longer a matter of choice in that situation, but rather one of placing oneself as the ethical opposite of those who elect to have children. What's the charming term the CBC camp likes to use when they think they're only talking to one another? Oh yes. 'Breeders.' As if we're livestock or something.
Words mean things. That's why there's an enormous difference between saying "Oh, we just don't want kids" and proudly saying, "Childless By Choice" like some shibboleth or quasi political affirmation. One is indeed a matter of choice while the other is crowing about one's moral superiority.
Maybe the reason these people feel the need to put a bumper sticker on their car is because they're tired of being judged or being made to feel like there's something wrong them for not wanting the same things that others want. I'm not defending the way those groups operate. But when yoire frequently told that you're less than, you do feel the need to push back and not act like you're ashamed of your choices. So it bothers you that these people assign moral judgment. Welcome to my world. Cause I get fed up when people with kids presume to tell me how I'll change my mind, accuse me of being selfish, or even try to persuade me to reconsider my position. I've never encountered anyone from Childree by Choice. But I'm willing to bet they're nowhere near as bad as some of the parents I've run into. What's funny about some of these parents who lecture me about my choices is how painfully obvious they make that they're actually threatened by me. I get the impression that they're worried I'll start a movement of some kind. I also think some of these parents are jealous cause I have an easier life. I can afford things they can't since I didn't have kids. And I think it bothers them perhaps because there's a part of them that secretly wonders if they should've opted out of having kids. Do I think all parents regret having kids? No. But the more vocal they are against people like me, the more I think they have issues of their own when it comes to kids.
And, trust me, the Childfree By Choice camp does indeed assign moral judgment.
...
When you affix a Childfree By Choice bumper sticker to your car, then you are using that as a statement of moral beliefs. It is indeed a slogan, one that advertises one's worldview, one that advertises one's choices as moral ones.
I affix no bumper stickers to my car, as this is a gauche behavior regardless of one's beliefs. Nor do I regard it to be productive (let alone polite) to berate parents for choices that they've already made. My lecturing, even if philosophically correct, can't undo the birth of the parent's children, but it certainly can poison relations.
But as an antinatalist I very much do feel a moral impetus to proselytize. Some Christians believe that humans are doomed to unspeakable eternal damnation if they don't accept Jesus as their "lord and savior". Well, there are certain people whom I don't particularly like, but there is absolutely nobody whom I so biliously hate that I'd wish for them to be eternally damned. If I were a Christian, I'd make concerted effort to nudge everyone to Christ. But I would not insult those who are already dead, who did not accept Christ. Similarly with antinatalism. The targets of my proselytizing are young people who have not yet had children - or in cpg's piquant phrasing, who have not yet bred.
I seek an intimate relationship with a woman who shares my antinatalist world-view. If she shares this world-view, it's overwhelmingly likely that many other crucial aspects of our personalities, values and preferences align. If she doesn't, then she might be brilliant, ravishingly attractive and of impeccable character - but we wouldn't be a match.
In real life regarding not having kids, I never mention it unless someone asks, I guess there probably are people out there that make it a life slogan advertising to the world that they are "child-free" or "child-less", like I said, I make no mention of it unless asked.
There are rude people on both sides of the equation, I've seen some people here on this forum get really nasty about kids and pretty much saying that they hate kids. I've also seen in real life when I've told someone that I don't have kids or plan on it and I've literally have had people give me the "oh, poor you" I feel so bad for you look .... so like I said, the rudeness goes both ways.
It's just this odd propensity for, instead of being secure in your choices and accepting of the reality that others make different ones and that that is completely fine, trying to paint your choice as the MORE valid, or vastly superior, choice. When, really, it's just YOUR choice, nothing more, nothing less.
It's just this odd propensity for, instead of being secure in your choices and accepting of the reality that others make different ones and that that is completely fine, trying to paint your choice as the MORE valid, or vastly superior, choice. When, really, it's just YOUR choice, nothing more, nothing less.
But my choice is the RIGHT choice.
I win! I win!!!
It's just this odd propensity for, instead of being secure in your choices and accepting of the reality that others make different ones and that that is completely fine, trying to paint your choice as the MORE valid, or vastly superior, choice. When, really, it's just YOUR choice, nothing more, nothing less.
Speaking of what is vastly superior, I find that if people keep their attitudes and opinions about things to themselves more, we'd all be better off...... again, both sides of the issue......
I disagree. I'm child free by choice, but I don't go around announcing it like I'm proud of myself. But we live in a culture that's quick to judge people who've decided they don't want kids or don't want to get married, as if there's something wrong with us for not wanting those things. I don't expect people to admire me for daring to be different. But a lot of childfree folks get really tired of having to defend our choice. In particular, what I can't stand is when someone says I'll change my mind. Really? How do they know? Why is it so hard for them to accept that some of us just don't want kids? I've NEVER suggested I'm making the superior moral choice. Like you said, it's an ethically neutral one. But if anyone's guilty of acting like they're making the morally superior choice, it's the folks who have children. I'm referring to the ones who accuse me of being selfish for deciding not to have kids. How is that selfish? When I think of what labels to assign myself, childfree isn't one of them. But fair or unfair, we live in a world that seems to define you in terms of whether you have kids, whether you're married, whether you believe in God, and so forth. If you go against the norm, meaning you don't want kids, you don't want to get married, or you don't believe in God, then it's the rest of society that seems intent on defining you. When I look in the mirror, I don't see childfree just like I don't see atheist. Why? Because it seems awfully silly to define yourself in terms of what you're not. Childfree is like atheist. It's a totally unnecessary word, but one forced upon people like me all because of the folks who have kids or the ones who believe in God.
I don't have kids and the abuse I've gotten because of it is amazing. I like kids and because of that I'm supposed either to desire kids or more common to desire to be a step mom. I don't judge people for having kids (well except those who do so for welfare) and in return I ask them not to judge me. Doesn't work that way though.
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again, both sides of the issue......
