Woman goes undercover as man for 18 months, decides women have it far easier in dating/relationships (lover, dance)

[Lafleur]

Originally Posted by TheSmuggler

This still assumes that all sex is procreative in nature and always leads to pregnancy.

Let's say it's not for that purpose. Can you prove that women are only selecting the top percentile of men to hook up with?

Because as far as procreation goes, we are telling you that we can prove that women are hooking up with a wide variety of men, not just the best of the best.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by Dewdroplet76

You said it! I'm going to have to ask my husband if one of his chicks is a neat freak because she would have a field day at our house!

If my husband doesn't have one who irons.... he better GET one STAT!!!

[vigueur2014]

Originally Posted by TheSmuggler

I've already addressed most of your other stuff, as it's the boilerplate you usually offer.

But I'd like to take a crack at the bolded. Your assertion holds up if we assume that everyone is only dating one person at a time, which we know to not be the case. It doesn't hold water because a lot of women want and are, in fact, dating the same men.

What we have going on today are soft harems, where average women are willing to accept FWB, less-than-committed arrangements from men who they perceive as "above them" on the dating/social totem pole.
What you end up with is a lot of higher-end guys dating/sleeping with 5-10 women at a time, and the average guys are getting frozen out.

Is that what you really believe? Do you even know what a FWB is? From what you said, you really don't understand. The reason most people get into FWB, if because they are too busy to seriously date anyone. They may have children, and careers that keep them very busy during the week. Because of their busy life, they will enter a FWB, where the chances of things getting dramatic are less. Do FWB have multiple partners, sure, but not all of them. I would say a very small percentage have multiple partners, and saying 5-10 women, is a little out there. It's really hard to keep 3 happy, 5-10 seems outrageous. The whole premise of FWB prevents you from having 5-10 different people to juggle.

You need to chose another excuse for lack of success.

[vigueur2014]

Originally Posted by TheSmuggler

You're lost. Women DO want casual with men who they would not be able to snag for commitment.

Women want casual relationships with men who are fun, and offer a drama free experience,......again, you need to find another excuse.

[TheSmuggler]

Originally Posted by vigueur2014

Is that what you really believe? Do you even know what a FWB is? From what you said, you really don't understand. The reason most people get into FWB, if because they are too busy to seriously date anyone. They may have children, and careers that keep them very busy during the week. Because of their busy life, they will enter a FWB, where the chances of things getting dramatic are less. Do FWB have multiple partners, sure, but not all of them. I would say a very small percentage have multiple partners, and saying 5-10 women, is a little out there. It's really hard to keep 3 happy, 5-10 seems outrageous. The whole premise of FWB prevents you from having 5-10 different people to juggle.

You need to chose another excuse for lack of success.

Yes, I do believe it, I've seen it in action because I've been that guy in the past, and some of my friends still are that guy.

This is before what happened to me, you know, happened to me.

[Leisesturm]

Originally Posted by Petunia 100

No, women want casual with a man who is fun and doesn't start getting all clingy and possessive afterwards. In my experience, that is hard to find.

You are generalizing but, yes, there are women like this. And men too. The difference, I think, is that men don't usually freak out at ... say 35, and suddenly realize that if they want kids, or even just someone to grow old with, they better find THE ONE, right now. The more attractive the woman the more likely she is to want to play the field well into her 30's and beyond, looking for the best possible match.

[Hivemind31]

Originally Posted by TheSmuggler

A Self-Made Man - ABC News

Personally, I think it's silly for anyone to argue otherwise.

Some of the conclusions from the dating portion:

-She admits women have all the power in dating

-and the 30 dates she went on with women, she rarely had any fun and the process was just brutal for her

-MOST Women DON'T want 'sensitive' men, they want powerful/assertive men

-at the very end of the segment, she admits being a woman is more of a privilege than being a man

I remember when this came out. And while funny to read, it still stands that...she's a woman pretending to be a man. For the time being, these experiments are better suited to online environments.

Originally Posted by Coolhand68

It's no surprise or secret that women hold the cards. That doesn't mean it makes dating any easier for them. While women may have more opportunities, especially with online dating where women likely get 100 replies for every 1 that a man gets, she also has to sort through a lot more frogs before she finds that prince.

It's all a matter of perception, and boils down to a "grass is greener" mindset. For every frog that a woman "has to deal with", that's a rejection that the aforementioned "frog" must suffer. So what sucks more? Rejecting or being rejected? I have my opinion, but you're correct in that it's not like men are the only ones who have to deal with any kind of complications. Fortunately, that's not the implication.

Originally Posted by timberline742

Nope. The vast vast majority of men, from average to below average, date and have relationships. If you go outside, you'll see that. If you mingle with coworkers, you'll see that.

Very very few people have no relationship success at all.

I'd submit that the vast majority of men date and have relationships AT SOME POINT. But there's a large portion of men that date INCREDIBLY infrequently as a result of the previously mentioned issues. I'm talking one date a year or less.

Originally Posted by TheSmuggler

I've already addressed most of your other stuff, as it's the boilerplate you usually offer.

But I'd like to take a crack at the bolded. Your assertion holds up if we assume that everyone is only dating one person at a time, which we know to not be the case. It doesn't hold water because a lot of women want and are, in fact, dating the same men.

What we have going on today are soft harems, where average women are willing to accept FWB, less-than-committed arrangements from men who they perceive as "above them" on the dating/social totem pole.
What you end up with is a lot of higher-end guys dating/sleeping with 5-10 women at a time, and the average guys are getting frozen out.

While I agree with the underlined, I have 2 responses:

1) I don't think you start seeing "frozen out" until you get to a lower percentage than "average". Granted, I still think it's a lot. Just not 50%.

2) I think it's less "willing to accept FWB" and more "don't know they're in a FWB situation".

Originally Posted by timberline742

50% of single males that want to date aren't dating/having sex?

You seriously believe that?



Yeah, damn, I was fat (around 240#), bald, glasses, and broke in my late 20s and yet I was part of the top 25%!! Who knew!!?

As mentioned, 50% is high...but I'll bet the actual number is higher than you think.

Originally Posted by Auraliea

Mmmm...I disagree with the first statement but agree with the rest.

From my experience the guys have held the cards if we want to play the "who has it easier" game.
I always lost when I caught feelings, because majority of the time the guys already had someone in mind they wanted to be with. I just had the misfortune of falling for them before I found out.

Yes we often do get bombarded with messages online and a lot of us get hit on in public but most of the time we want something meaningful while 80% of those guys just want a one night stand. People are getting better and better at concealing their true desires so it's wise to stay on your toes at all times.

Getting sex is easy...love...not so much. In most of the posts like this....that is where a lot of people miss the point.

The underlined make excellent points, and something I often say myself. The difficulties that men face regarding ACQUIRING dates is similar to the difficulty that women face MAINTAINING relationships. A lot of men I know would argue that getting love is easy once you have dates; it's the dates that are hard to get. Similar problems, reversed.

Originally Posted by timberline742

Did they cut off their wee wee?

Seriously, you need to get out some. You're so far off base it isn't funny. Look around at work. At schools. At bars and restaurants. People are out dating and socializing like crazy.

There's a lot of places one could look where people aren't doing these things. The environments you list aren't exclusively indicative of society as a whole.

Originally Posted by timberline742

No, casual comes before serious. Always. It doesn't start serious.

Second, I have no idea where you get this nonsense that a whole lot of women are waiting their turn with a single guy. Both guys and women date/sleep around equally from everything I've seen in this world.

I just have to disagree with the underlined with anecdotal experience...most of the women in my circle just straight into serious (or at least the assumption of serious, which is silly on their part, but that doesn't stop them)

Originally Posted by TheSmuggler

You're lost. Women DO want casual with men who they would not be able to snag for commitment.

Gotta disagree here, too. I see what you're saying, but I think at best, they'd "put up with" casual in the hopes of it developing into something more serious. I've been in that situation (from the other side) more times than I can count.

[Hivemind31]

Originally Posted by vigueur2014

Is that what you really believe? Do you even know what a FWB is? From what you said, you really don't understand. The reason most people get into FWB, if because they are too busy to seriously date anyone. They may have children, and careers that keep them very busy during the week. Because of their busy life, they will enter a FWB, where the chances of things getting dramatic are less. Do FWB have multiple partners, sure, but not all of them. I would say a very small percentage have multiple partners, and saying 5-10 women, is a little out there. It's really hard to keep 3 happy, 5-10 seems outrageous. The whole premise of FWB prevents you from having 5-10 different people to juggle.

You need to chose another excuse for lack of success.

Be aware that, whether you agree with it or not, many people use FB and FWB interchangeably, including myself. I'm aware that there's a functional difference, but the latter is so rare it's basically taken on the definition of the former, at least colloquially.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Hivemind31

There's a lot of places one could look where people aren't doing these things. The environments you list aren't exclusively indicative of society as a whole.

Wait, school and work (which people pretty much all people are youths and adults (pre senior years)) aren't indicative of society as a whole? People are either at school, or working (or both), so yeah, I'd say they are great indicators.

Originally Posted by Hivemind31

Be aware that, whether you agree with it or not, many people use FB and FWB interchangeably, including myself. I'm aware that there's a functional difference, but the latter is so rare it's basically taken on the definition of the former, at least colloquially.

I think you got those mixed up, no? FWBs are very common. Straight FBs are pretty uncommon. People don't keep sleeping with people they don't like hanging out with. They're not really interchangeable, IMO.

[Petunia 100]

What are FBs? What is the distinction from FWBs?