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Enjoyed your post...and agree. I think the whole point to manners/etiquette, chivalry, what have you, is to be a civilizing force within society. Little by little, in a thousand subtle ways, we have allowed the compulsion to be decent to our fellow men, women and children escape us, and it needs to make a resounding comeback. Poor manners, and poor treatment is not just a male-female problem anymore.
It's been my experience, having been raised -- conditioned -- to respect people, that that was a mistake. Women have had no qualms disrespecting me right to my face and without a second's hesitation. Men are just as bad. If I ever had kids, I wouldn't raise them to be ne'er-do-wells, but I certainly wouldn't raise them in a manner that put mental barriers from being just as rude back to whoever brought the disrespect, all in the name of "courtesy," "turn the other cheek," "professionalism," and whathaveyou.
It's been my experience, having been raised -- conditioned -- to respect people, that that was a mistake. Women have had no qualms disrespecting me right to my face and without a second's hesitation. Men are just as bad. If I ever had kids, I wouldn't raise them to be ne'er-do-wells, but I certainly wouldn't raise them in a manner that put mental barriers from being just as rude back to whoever brought the disrespect, all in the name of "courtesy," "turn the other cheek," "professionalism," and whathaveyou.
As with all things, there is a yes-and-no aspect to this. On one hand I FEEL your pain, fully grasp your frustration. People in general today are less overtly rude (although it is becoming ever more present and overt) and more just kind of... thoughtless. It's not that they are directly NOT saying 'thank you' for some social gesture, more that as less and less of it occurs in the world, it occurs to people less and less to be gracious.
And that graciousness right there... therein lies the "...-and-no" part of it, for while on the one hand there is that pervading sense of frustration and the understandable desire to "push back", there is the ubiquitous other hand, whereby one is allowing the pricks of the world to change who you are, who you want to be, how you conduct yourself according to your own code.
There is a difference between being rude to someone because they were rude, and asserting your own personal authority into the situation in order to stop them from being rude. One involves a temporary loss of your own poise, the other is specifically maintaining your self-control and assertiveness.
Situations vary, obviously. If someone was so rude as to be openly aggressive, let alone unjustifiably self-righteous, condescending, etc., then clearly, do NOT be afraid (whether thru fear or automatic social convention) to stand firm, even push back.
But you have to ask yourself two questions:
- Do you think to such thoughtless, classless people (and it truly is a lack of class) your words actually mean anything, or will change them in the slightest? I would suggest typically not, because most 'brutes' of this world aren't brutes because they're stupid, but because they're thoughtless, utterly egocentric and can't imagine that others matter. Standing up to them is typically enough to stop them attempting to bulldoze you in long-term situations, while short-term situations are fleeting, there and gone before anyone really knows what happened.
- Who do you WANT to be? The angry guy with a retort on the end of his tongue, always at the ready for the pricks of the world? Or Joe Strong, the guy who is polite to everyone, solid enough to call BS when he sees it and who can be pushed only so far before he says a quiet "Enough," and digs in his feet, stands a bit straighter before telling someone to back off? Both guys still have problems, there's no cure-all; but at the end of the day being who you are while striving to be who you want to be holds some personal value.
In the end, this is just a forum filled with 'voices' who all lack a face, people sounding off with whatever they think at any given moment -- so make what you will of my words, to keep or discard.
Who do you WANT to be? The angry guy with a retort on the end of his tongue, always at the ready for the pricks of the world? Or Joe Strong, the guy who is polite to everyone, solid enough to call BS when he sees it and who can be pushed only so far before he says a quiet "Enough," and digs in his feet, stands a bit straighter before telling someone to back off? Both guys still have problems, there's no cure-all; but at the end of the day being who you are while striving to be who you want to be holds some personal value.
I've pushed back before, but not everyone backs down and I don't like wasting my life force to even have to deal with it, although I guess I can if I have to.
More in the context of the thread, I think chivalry, like a lot of old traditions, isn't realistic and can lead to false social dynamics. Really more in the day-to-day, women aren't walking around thinking about chivalry. I went to the grocery store the other day. It was raining. While walking out, I saw an older man have his lady wait up front while he went to the car and pulled it around. Perhaps a moment of catharsis, as I think I would've just had a girl walk in the rain with me. I mean, what's the big deal, it's just rain .
And some are just ridiculous. Standing for a woman who enters a room? Really? Unless a queen enters the damn room, I'm keeping my a$& seated. Waiting for a woman? What do you mean? If I say meet me at 9and she ain't ready at 9, forget about meeting.
Stick with the trailer park women, they would probably like your attitude.
I've pushed back before, but not everyone backs down and I don't like wasting my life force to even have to deal with it, although I guess I can if I have to.
More in the context of the thread, I think chivalry, like a lot of old traditions, isn't realistic and can lead to false social dynamics. Really more in the day-to-day, women aren't walking around thinking about chivalry. I went to the grocery store the other day. It was raining. While walking out, I saw an older man have his lady wait up front while he went to the car and pulled it around. Perhaps a moment of catharsis, as I think I would've just had a girl walk in the rain with me. I mean, what's the big deal, it's just rain.
On one hand you're right; it's just rain, it's not going to hurt her, let alone kill her.
And therein lies THE answer... actually, the answer for both points in your response, the chivalry/false dynamic question, and the question of pushing back against the rude.
It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world (except for Lola).
The kind of woman I'D want to be with (and that's the only thing I can be sure of when I assert, because I simply do not speak for anyone else on this matter) wouldn't mind the rain. Nobody necessarily likes getting rained on when it's a nasty, cold day, or it's a downpour, etc. But the kind of woman who would suit me wouldn't think twice about getting wet in the rain on the way to the car. She just wouldn't. As far as she'd be concerned, it's just rain, it's not going to hurt her.
And yet...
Such a woman would make me smile. She'd just be standing there, minding her portion of OUR own business, but the fact that she'd walk to the truck in the rain with me, it's a rarity in character, something special that sets her apart from all the others who, via that deeply-instituted false dynamic to which you refer, simply expect me to go get the truck and pull it around for them.
And because such a woman would be, to me, special, heartwarming, give me that feeling of personal satisfaction in having her in my life -- I'd be genuinely happy to go get the truck and pull it around for her.
It's your life, and you can be chivalrous according to YOUR standards, or according to those pseudo- and loosely dictated by a bunch of other people who honestly don't matter but are always, always all too willing to tell you how you need to be living, behaving, thinking.
You can be utterly NON-chivalrous. You can make it a personal principle, or it can be tossed off with a shrug.
Either way, you are NOT going to change the world one iota more than any of us will doing the typing equivalent of ratchet-jawing in these forums. Maybe your discussion of it makes a person or two think, but in the end you're still living your life, day-to-day, behaving as you see fit, and it mattering very, very little to anyone else in the grand scheme of things.
Me, I try to be polite and hold the door for everyone, but I admit I do it more for women, will stand longer waiting for them when they're a greater distance behind me.
I just as freely admit it irks me how very, very, VERY many of them waltz on past without so much as a glance or nod, let alone an honest expression of gratitude. It's so rare that when a woman does thank me, I usually thank her for having the courtesy to thank me in a world full of women who fail to do so.
Hi OP,
You should know young man, being a gentleman and being polite, like opening doors for the ladies getting out of or in your car, a store or taking her home is the actions of a man, not some fu fu day dream believer. How about me dating your daughter, I come to the door like a might fine young man, I say hello sir, hello ma'am, my name is Knight, Patty and I go to school together and she's my friend, it's very nice to finally meet you both, I heard a lot about you both, Patty always talking about how nice her parents are, I like her a lot, we're going to see a movie and were going to nice restaurant to hang out and have a good time, what time do you expect Patty home? ok, we will be home on time. I have work tomorrow.
Thank you Sir, Thank you ma'am, it was really nice to finally meet you both.. That's how young man acts at a young age and it stays with you forever. Respect should never be taking lightly, it is the Character and the values that makes the man..
On one hand you're right; it's just rain, it's not going to hurt her, let alone kill her.
...
Or maybe it could be something as simple as he's trying to avoid her looking like a drowned rat.
My father always dropped my mom and I off at the door no matter where we went, or what the weather. If my father's hair got wet, well it didn't look any different than when it was dry. Mom and I, on the other hand...
Or maybe it could be something as simple as he's trying to avoid her looking like a drowned rat.
My father always dropped my mom and I off at the door no matter where we went, or what the weather. If my father's hair got wet, well it didn't look any different than when it was dry. Mom and I, on the other hand...
I agree, although I don't worry about it for cosmetic reasons, more comfort reasons. When I'm driving, I drop my spouse and son up at the door, then go find parking during inclement weather.
Conversely, my spouse does not do so unless I ask. She used to typically comment something like "I guess I'm supposed to be the only one who gets wet, huh?" Then I started pointing it out to her. Now she doesn't say anything, she just glares at me.
If it's just me, I don't ask because I don't care. If it's all of us, I see no need for everybody to get soaked. Wet clothes won't kill you, but they're uncomfortable. Mostly I do it now for my son.
Or maybe it could be something as simple as he's trying to avoid her looking like a drowned rat.
My father always dropped my mom and I off at the door no matter where we went, or what the weather. If my father's hair got wet, well it didn't look any different than when it was dry. Mom and I, on the other hand...
To the question "It's rain, it's not you're going to melt."
My answer is:
"Of course I will melt, the Wicked Witch always melts in water."
My hair frizzes, it's long, and it took AWHILE to flatiron it!!!
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To the question "It's rain, it's not you're going to melt."
My answer is:
"Of course I will melt, the Wicked Witch always melts in water."
My hair frizzes, it's long, and it took AWHILE to flatiron it!!!
Nice job, Mikala. Very nice. Actually, when we roll up, it's a complete Smoke Out and Fragg Out, a summer day last year, in s#$t hot smoke and grease, they really really did melt. But hey, it's not me, it's a double row house smoke fest, Rescue /Squad 8, Engine/House 18. I had a save, a dog, the poor thing was shaking, I covered her with my jacket and brought her to ladder, the ladies cheered me on and became my fan club. That's how we play play.
So yes, Witches really do melt in water, like everybody else. Just saying.
Knightly.
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Just saying.
