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This is my first time posting, but I have been reading the relationship forum on city data for years, and I have always found it to be informational. I'm posting on behalf of a friend, who doesn't do the message board thing, as I am out of advice to give her and need some new opinions.
my friend is in her late 30s, lives in downtown Chicago, has a high-powered job (6 figure income), is in good shape, and is attractive. She is very friendly and smart, though not exceptionally outgoing (she goes out but tends to hang out at museums or the symphony, rather than bars or sporting events). She unfortunately also has an STI that she got more than 10 years ago from a boyfriend who cheated on her, but it rarely causes her any issue and she has never passed it to anyone else.
She was married, but has been single since her divorce, about 3 years ago and is panicking that she will not be able to find someone to marry and have a family with, given her age and mitigating factors. because of the STI , she thinks that it would be dishonest to use online dating, but she also doesn't think that anyone looking to have a family would go for someone her age.
given that she has a high net-worth, she is hesitant to marry someone who is paying alimony or child support, as she doesn't want to risk being financially responsible for those (another friend became responsible for her husband's child support payments after he lost his job, so we know that this can happen).Also, we both know a lot of divorced people who have no interest in having more children and my friend really would like to have a child of her own.
What my friend would like to know is this. Ideally, she would like to find someone of a similar age, similar interests, and a similar financial standing, who doesn't have children but would like to. But at her age and with her baggage (as she put it), is she being unreasonable? If she is, then where does she need to lower her hopes?
My advice to her has been that the number of men her age who don't have children but still want them is pretty small, so it will be a tough search, especially if she does't want to use online dating. And I think that she is probably right that someone who does want kids will want someone 5-10 years younger than her. So I suggested that she just have a baby by herself now, since she can afford to, then she won't have to panic about finding a husband immediately.
OP, I"m ever the optimist, so I don't think you and your friend should view her situation negatively. I especially think you should both purge from your minds the usual cliches and erroneous beliefs about men her age going for younger women, the number of single, child-free men in her age range being too small, etc. There are lots of guys who hit 40 and panic that they'll never be able to find a stable, intelligent, child-free woman to marry. Your friend needs to find those guys. There's an online dating site that a few people have referenced the last couple of years, that's exclusively for people with higher education who are in the professions. I don't recall the name, but maybe someone will come along on the thread who knows about it.
Otherwise, your friend needs to kick her socializing and networking into higher gear. With her income, she can afford to attend charity fund-raising dinners, and the like (John and Tereza Kerry met at one), and volunteer professional services to non-profits, or get on a couple of boards. She can attend professional conferences. She can let her friends know she's looking, and what, type-wise, she's looking for. One executive woman who wrote a book about how to find a partner in her peer-group swears by walking your dog in the right neighborhoods, and being friendly. (If your friend has a dog.) Your friend needs to figure out what the high-end professional and social events are in the community, and start circulating in those environments. The right guy will not fall in her lap. He's out there, but she has to find him. She may have to push past her comfort zone to do this, but if it's important enough to her, she'll manage.
She's not too old to find someone in time to have a child, that's ridiculous. Men in their late 30's and early 40's do not all go for younger women, that simply isn't true; it's not reality. Many look for women in their age-range, at more or less the same stage in their careers and life as the men are, themselves. If you talk to people in real life, rather than on forums, you'll find that to be true. Beware of forum biases. She should stay positive and confident, rather than panicky and needy. That will help attract the kind of people she's looking for.
She is not doomed at all, people 30's is young not old! People in their sixties and later get married. Depends on what kind of STI it is, Herpes or genital warts are pretty common. HIV is tougher.
Also I hope she gets treatment, some STIs are curable.
Good thing she hangs out at museums and orchestras, great places to meet men who share her interest.
Thanks all, for the feedback. A few clarification points, since I think a couple of things may have been missed along the way:
1. My friend just turned 39, so almost 40, rather than still in her 30s.
2. I did disclose the STI (or STD - not sure what is the difference, where I am from we say STI) and it is genital herpes
3. She doesn't have "conditions" for what a future husband must be, I was just stating what she would like them to be (and is it so wrong to hope for someone who is an equal)
To the 3rd point and with regards to choosing a man of less financial means who would like to be a stay at home father, this is sort of the person she married the first time around. He made about 1/4 her salary, but financial habits and goals and all that were in sync (they did pre-marital counseling). Until after the wedding, at which point he expressed a desire to stop working immediately and eventually become a stay at home father, which he had never mentioned before. They maintained separate finances, but he became very controlling about money, monitoring her bank account, taking away her credit cards, counting money in her handbag every evening to check if she had bought anything during the day, etc. At the same time, he started buying a lot of fancy electronics and gadgets that were of no use to her, claiming that it was okay because he was still saving the same amount of money before he was married (he moved in with her, so he no longer had any living expenses).
The situation became worse and worse and eventually abusive, but it at least it ended quickly and safely for her. However, she has some trust issues now, particularly when it comes to people who make significantly less than she does. And getting a divorce within a year of getting married or may be a red flag to others.
Last edited by AnnaLeeza; 06-11-2015 at 04:04 AM..
Reason: typo
PS. the financial control issues had nothing to do with credit card debt or impulse shopping habits or anything like that. my friend is big saver with no debt, as was her ex-husband. he simply felt that every purchase needed to be approved by him first, including trivial items like a taxi ride home from the office or a bottle of water.
She is not doomed at all, people 30's is young not old! People in their sixties and later get married. Depends on what kind of STI it is, Herpes or genital warts are pretty common. HIV is tougher.
Also I hope she gets treatment, some STIs are curable.
Good thing she hangs out at museums and orchestras, great places to meet men who share her interest.
She is, actually. 30's is not old, but it is not, young. People can, and do, marry in their 60's and later than that. Do they start families at that age? You haven't read the o.p. very carefully nor have you read any of the follow-up posts.
I never said that my friend was a saint and I also said what I told my friend in my first post. I also said that I was posting online because I was out of ideas and wanted to hear some new ones. Sorry if I've offended you, as I didn't mean to do so.
Do I think my friend is a nice person? Yes, just as most people think of their friends. Do I think that she deserves love and a child, if that's what she wants? Yes, just as most would feel for their friends. Do I think that she has some challenges in getting these things? Yes, just as I have posted and as she has also acknowledged.
Again, apologies if my thread has upset you. It wasn't my intention.
She's not too old to find someone in time to have a child, that's ridiculous. Men in their late 30's and early 40's do not all go for younger women, that simply isn't true; it's not reality. Many look for women in their age-range, at more or less the same stage in their careers and life as the men are, themselves. If you talk to people in real life, rather than on forums, you'll find that to be true. Beware of forum biases. She should stay positive and confident, rather than panicky and needy. That will help attract the kind of people she's looking for.
I so hate to be disagreeing with you, R4T, I'm a fan. But I don't see that it helps to keep perpetuating this myth that it all works out for women who delay motherhood. Mostly it does not. For single digit percentages of women and through expensive interventions of medical science they get their dream family and it all works out. In a country as big as the U.S. that is still a fairly large number of women. The odds that the o.p.'s friend will wind up in that happy minority are tiny. No reasonable bookie would take those odds.
Of course there are guys in their late 30's and early 40's that are single and available. They are NOT without baggage. If a guy is any good he was snapped up years earlier and he is now paying child support or alimony, or both. If not, he did not want a family and so there you are. That there might be a guy exactly like the o.p.'s friend: baggage free, high net worth, sophisticated, etc. and ready to hit the ground running with respect to starting a family. Of course there is. Somewhere. In her city? In her state? How do you find someone if you don't even know what city they live in?
We are not doing young women any favors by telling them in their 20's how much time they have. They don't have any. Biologically 20's are exactly the time. So we've pushed back on that a bit in the 20th Century that doesn't change the underlying biological realities. How much is reasonable to push the envelope? 2 years? 5? 10? 20? As a guy, nothing is more off-putting than meeting some woman who from the first successful date has a wedding date and a due date in mind. That's the situation the o.p. would be in. I would want five years with a mate before any children, to bond, assess our parenting styles and lay down some nest egg. I didn't get that because the mother of my children (twins) schemed to get pregnant and hid the pregnancy for as long as she could, because she was 36 and was not going to get another chance. I was 30. We had been dating 3 months. We hadn't had sex before and we never had much more again after even though we were married for four years.
Unfortunately, this situation hits way too close to home for me to be objective about it. I simply don't know what women do with 10 years of their lives that they wind up almost 40 and childless. But if that is the reality, I don't know why they don't accept it better than they do. If the o.p.'s friend was my friend I'd be saying to her, friend, you have a great life. Enjoy it. If it had been meant for you to have children you would have had them by now. If you want to find a guy, find a guy. If he wants kids then go ahead and try to have kids. What other advice could there be? I mean... she is perfectly able on her salary to buy sperm and have a child. Since she wants a more traditional family structure she needs a husband. That is the priority and that cannot be rushed, it just has to take its time and happen. It should have happened already, but it didn't. Doesn't change how long it takes to get a relationship ready for a) marriage and b) child(ren).
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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I don't know where you get that stuff. I know exactly one couple that had a child in their 20s. The rest in their 30s, mostly mid to late 30s. No one who wanted them couldn't/didn't have them, unless they didn't meet a person to have them with and decided not to go it alone (some did).
I don't know where you get that stuff. I know exactly one couple that had a child in their 20s. The rest in their 30s, mostly mid to late 30s. No one who wanted them couldn't/didn't have them, unless they didn't meet a person to have them with and decided not to go it alone (some did).
I did say that the mother of my children was 36 when she conceived. My neighbors across the street were 32/34 when they had their first child. My point was that just because most couples are having their children in their early to mid 30's doesn't mean it is a best practice. It also has led to the thinking that since the 30's is alright then how bad can the 40's be? When my neighbors tried to have another child two years later, nothing. Usually it isn't that hard for a couple that has already had a child the next time around. You can't go by your own circle of friends/family when deciding what is or is not typical. Every year after 35 a woman's fertility is dropping like a rock. 40 is a cliff. Where do I get this stuff? Read. It's out there. Most people don't come up against the hard realities because most people aren't 39 and childless. Some are. But not most. That's all I am saying. If people knew how hard it was after 35 to conceive they might try harder to get a family started earlier. Also the divorce rate might be lower if people didn't have to load down young and fragile marriages with the stresses of parenting because there isn't any time to waste. Young couples should be getting to know each other, traveling, bonding. Instead they are dealing with pregnancy, childbirth and parenting and end up being co-parents, not a couple. Should anything bad happen to that child the marriage is over. It is literally the only thing keeping them together.
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