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Men see it as leverage
"I am not having sex with you cuz I am upset with you"
"um...kay...why are you upset now"
"cuz I do all the housework and you don't help" (usually skewed bs...but ok)
we hear:
"If you want sex, do some housework"
word it how you will, THIS IS IT
unless there really are serious problems like drink or drug or other abuse, cheating...
but typically the divide is bs issues...she wants things a certain way and god help his sex life if he doesn't capitulate...
The problem in some marriages is not the lack of sex. The lack of sex is the symptom. You may see it as the problem - but it is the symptom. Unless the wife has a medical condition or a very low libido, sex is the symptom. The problem might be that she doesn't love her husband, she isn't attracted to him, she is unhappy in the marriage, she is tired and overworked, etc. I'm not saying that the problem is always the husband's fault or that the wife is justified in feeling that there is a problem. I'm simply saying that there is a problem and the lack of sex is a symptom. And most people expect more out of a marriage than simply not being beaten or having an active addict for a spouse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky2balive
bing bing bing we have a winner
In counseling my wife calls it "when I ask him...when I ask him for a favor"
there are no "requests"...wives make demands...some are demands, others are demands disguised as requests/favors...what makes them all demands are the consequences for refusal
the consequences are "she is upset, she is angry, she is crying again"
and what is the result of the consequences...all intimacy, sex, are now off the table until the situation is resolved (refusal to meet demands ends)
im talking little trivial ****e...ridiculous
Your interpretation of your unhappy marriage is not representative of how marriages work. In a healthy marriage - both partners are satisfied with their sex life because both partners are happy with each other the majority of the time. If I'm upset with my husband, we work things out. He would never expect me to have sex with him when things are off between us. We work out the problem first and then we enjoy the good stuff.
If you are not meeting your wife's needs in the marriage, she will not meet your needs in the marriage.
She: If you don't do A, I will not do B
He: If you don't do B, I will not do A.
That's essentially what you are saying and that is the problem that I'm pointing out... you don't see that? I'm sorry. it really is that simple. Both A and B are leverages and bargaining chips on the table. As I"ve already said, using intimacy as a bargaining chip is not the best approach (already explained)
Let's switch it...
"If you (female) not meeting your husband's needs in the marriage, he will not meet your needs in a marriage". Why doesn't anyone actually explicitly state the opposite? That's because the opposite is not always true in this topic.... The context of these types of discussions always places the needs of the wife FIRST over the needs of the husband. Hence leverage and not equal... and somehow its consider unacceptable to place the needs of the husband first.
So, Let me rephrase to what should be discussing as per what I've said before.
If you are trying to meet your wife's needs in marriage, she will also try to meet your needs in marriage.
Both sides should predicate change with the intent to change....
Prostitution and porn was simply a statement to indicate that when it comes to men vs women, the leverage is not equal. No more no less. Sex is a bargaining chip that is rarely available to the men in relationships but almost always available to the women in relationships. If you insist on taking it that topic in isolation and ignore the context which I framed it around, that's your problem because it is distraction to topic. It tells me that you'd rather talk about something else... not so much interested in this topic but rather simply getting a "win" in a game. I'm not interested in playing that game. And such.. I will move on....
Here is the context:
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
There is a reason why the percentage of men taking part in vices such as prostitution and pornography far out weigh the number women who take part in the same vices. If men and women had the same level of need for physical affection, the statistics would speak to it.
"In general population studies, men have been shown to be 6.43 times more likely than women to use Internet pornography.10 Research also finds that older women look at pornography less (male-female ratio of 6:1) than younger women (ratio of 3:1).11 In the 2007 study, 86 percent of young men had viewed pornography in the past year, compared to 31 percent of women."
Women here state that have to be a certain state of mind in order to have sex. Toys don't establish that state of mind... but women can still enjoy sex with them? (rhetorical)
Again, I'm not intended to discuss porn in isolation but rather in the context I posted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
There is a reason why the percentage of men taking part in vices such as prostitution and pornography far out weigh the number women who take part in the same vices. If men and women had the same level of need for physical affection, the statistics would speak to it.
However, do not pass false information implying that women and men have the same physical sexual drive for which porn is often a fall back option. Men overwhelmingly consume sexual vices over women.
If men and women had the same level of need for physical affection, the statistics would speak to it. (note: I'm not saying that women are void of this need)
I think part of the confusion with this debate is semantics. You're defining "physical affection" as the same thing as sex. I don't remember if it was you or someone else, but the same parallel was made earlier in the thread with "intimacy." Sex is physical affection, but not all physical affection is sex. Sex is intimate, but not all intimacy is sex. Problems arise when the people in a relationship are defining things differently and aren't communicating: he can't understand why she won't have sex with him if she loves him, and she can't understand why he can't just give her a hug without groping her and trying to take it further. These kinds of misunderstandings will keep pushing them apart if they retreat to their corners and sulk and don't talk about it.
Last edited by fleetiebelle; 06-15-2015 at 10:37 AM..
I think part of the confusion with this debate is semantics. You're defining "physical affection" as the same thing as sex. I don't remember if it was you or someone else, but the same parallel was made earlier in the thread with "intimacy." Sex is physical affection, but not all physical affection is sex. Sex is intimate, but not all intimacy is sex. Problems arise when the people in a relationship are defining things differently and aren't communicating: he can't understand why she won't have sex with him if she loves him, and she can't understand why he can't just give her a hug without groping her and trying to take it further. These kinds of misunderstandings just keep pushing them apart.
Very good point. Thanks for pointing it out.
Its part of the reason why I usually say "intimacy" in many of my posts. I understand that different couples define or have sex expectations that are different from others. I guess I'm being vague for a reason.. without really knowing so.
"In general population studies, men have been shown to be 6.43 times more likely than women to use Internet pornography.10 Research also finds that older women look at pornography less (male-female ratio of 6:1) than younger women (ratio of 3:1).11 In the 2007 study, 86 percent of young men had viewed pornography in the past year, compared to 31 percent of women."
Women here state that have to be a certain state of mind in order to have sex. Toys don't establish that state of mind... but women can still enjoy sex with them? (rhetorical)
Again, I'm not intended to discuss porn in isolation but rather in the context I posted:
However, do not pass false information implying that women and men have the same physical sexual drive for which porn is often a fall back option. Men overwhelmingly consume sexual vices over women.
Toys don't put a woman in the mood. Toys help her get off when she is already in the mood. Think of a toy like you would think of your hand. Your hand doesn't turn you on.
Toys don't put a woman in the mood. Toys help her get off when she is already in the mood. Think of a toy like you would think of your hand. Your hand doesn't turn you on.
Context.. not established by me but by timerline...:
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742
Of course not, women don't need to pay for it (women always have options they don'thave to pay for), they also have an incredible marketplace of vibrators (etc etc) that men don't have an equivalent of (oh there is fleshlight stuff, but it isnt the mainstream norm like a women's vibrator, there are precious few women I've met that don't have one or more).
It was rhetorical question since I don't believe it has any weight on this discussion but rather a distraction.
Context.. not established by me but by timerline...:
It was rhetorical question since I don't believe it has any weight on this discussion but rather a distraction.
I still think you are seeing things in the wrong light. Most women desire sex. You are trying to say that they don't because they don't watch as much porn as men do. Timber is pointing out to you that women get turned on by different things. And if women didn't like sex and desire sex - there wouldn't be a market for sex toys and erotica.
i can only tell you from my experience but when i am with someone and happy and i want to have sex all the time and i fully enjoy it.
in the past when i was in a relationship that was not working for various reasons over time i would be so unhappy with them that i would just lose my desire to have sex with them.
it was not about manipulation but about wanting to please and be pleased by someone who i was truly happy with and not for someone i am not feeling that way about.
I still think you are seeing things in the wrong light. Most women desire sex. You are trying to say that they don't because they don't watch as much porn as men do. Timber is pointing out to you that women get turned on by different things. And if women didn't like sex and desire sex - there wouldn't be a market for sex toys and erotica.
Never said that women do not desire sex. See my previous posts. ITs all about using it for leverage in a relationship and how that that approach is both unhealthy and unequal (generally favors women). It is predicated by the overwhelming greater number of men (versus women) who turn to sexual vices to fulfill those needs.... this includes divorce and infidelity... both are the end result of using sex as a leverage.
Let me remind the context:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jman136
Anyway, I am just getting frustrated, and notice myself looking more and more at other women. I always wonder how others sex lives are, and whether or not the women get bored with their man, and the sex slows way down once they've been dating and or get married?
Last edited by usayit; 06-15-2015 at 10:57 AM..
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