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Old 07-15-2015, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,065,133 times
Reputation: 22274

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
Spot on.

There is supporting someone's lifestyle by accepting people as they are and working with them to ensure they have the same rights as everyone else.

There is feeling like one doesn't have a dog in this hunt, so one doesn't care one way or the other, but would essentially feel that rights are rights, and that rights should not be given or denied to people based on gender, creed, ethnicity, or sexuality. "Not for me, but not going to say other people can't have it, either."

And then there are bigots. If someone says they don't support marriage among homosexuals, then that person is essentially in this group because they are saying that some people, because of their sexuality, should not have the same rights as everyone else. That is discrimination, and discrimination is the manifestation of nothing less than bigotry.

Look, people, you either believe everyone should have civil rights, or you don't--and if you don't, you're a bigot. It's really that simple. If the word offends you, too bad. Don't be offensive in your arrogance and belief that your way should be the only way, and don't seek to deny others the same rights you have because you, in all of your blistering self-importance, think you should have some kind of power of approval over someone else's relationships and marriage (indeed, believe that anyone gives a rat's arse whether you approve of their sexuality or not in the first place), you won't be considered a bigot. No one is forcing you to be a bigot. It's something you can control. It's a choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
Kind of sick of this crap on this forum. People need to mind their own damn business. Or, as one friend of mine, who is gay, said, who asked them?

And it kills me when people say it should be put to a vote. Inalienable rights are not something to vote on, unless, of course, they're okay with you and me voting on whether they should be able to get married. And believe me, on this forum, I see people who probably should not only never get married, but would be doing what I consider a favor to society if they walled themselves up and avoided human contact entirely!
Agree agree agree agree!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
Bigots deserve respect?

That has got to be one of the most asinine notions I've ever seen put forth anywhere.
And agree again!!!

Come on guys, Hitler and Idi Amin deserve respect, too! I mean - being a bigot doesn't make you a bad person.

 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:40 PM
 
6,534 posts, read 7,251,951 times
Reputation: 3800
Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
The group of vegetarians is not a good analogy.

Now, if those vegetarians would promote that jews didnt have the right to vote, now...that would be a good analogy.
You are blaming it all on religion for gays not being able to do all the things they are doing now. It was your country as a whole who didn't support it for many years. Can't blame religion for alcohol not being legal for so long, can we? Unless we just want to look for someone to blame it to.

LGTB doesn't like religions for obvious reasons but yet they have the nerve to go and try to change their views and if not they sue them? What do you think of LGTB suing religious establishments/churches/publishers/organizations? In your country gays have gone quite far not only with the marrying issue but also as far as trying to take others’ rights away. Why not leave religions in peace? You might say religions attack your rights to be gay/lesbian. Nope. Not all religions do that. They may believe homosexuality is a sin and will talk about it if asked. Heck, there are cases of homosexuals turning to religion and now lead happy lives married to someone of the opposite sex and even participating with X religion and those who want to turn their lives away from that lifestyle. But there are also those who will get in your face and just behave badly. Guess what, it happens with LGTB as well. You have those out there who are totally fine with religions regardless of them seeing homosexuality as a sin. What do they do? They simply stay away from it and respect those who think differently as it will not change how they decided to live. Then you have those LGTB who get in other people’s faces and insult them, judge them, etc. simply because they don’t root for their lifestyle.

Quote:
NO, if a group of people is advocating for other group of people to NOT have the same rights as them, we have the right to critisize them. This is basic human decency that you dont seem to understand.
So taking the religious right to practice whatever they want to is totally acceptable for you, is it? It's a basic human decency to let anybody practice religion as much as it is for you to be LGTB. LGTB have their rights now and are not even going as far as suing religion? And then LGTB complains about bigotry, the irony.

It is being said that other groups of preferences/orientations also want their voices to be heard. I guess an adult with her/his teenage lover will be next? Hey, its all about celebrating diversity, being open minded, tolerating differences, letting love win, etc. so I guess you wouldn’t have a problem supporting that, right?
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,065,133 times
Reputation: 22274
As for the OP - I know some people who were homophobes that later came out of the closet and I know some homophobe that are simply bigots.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:42 PM
 
6,534 posts, read 7,251,951 times
Reputation: 3800
I've know of cases of homosexuals who turned into a religion and now live a happy life married with a person of the opposite sex, with children, and also talking to other homosexuals who want to turn their lives from that lifestyle .
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:44 PM
 
Location: PNW, CPSouth, JacksonHole, Southampton
3,730 posts, read 5,717,254 times
Reputation: 15073
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD4020 View Post
Just think of what they do for property values and Halloween.

They take nothing away from me.
Ever so true! Jackson, Mississippi, my old metro, is listed as the Sixth Fastest Shrinking City (Jackson Jambalaya: Yahoo Homes: Jackson 6th fastest shrinking city.). Gays have been leaving the state since the advent of the first Gay Meccas (NYC, San Francisco, LA). I suspect it this started as early as the 1840s, and has gained momentum steadily, ever since. Consequently, there have been few people there, interested in preserving/restoring/curating the wonderful old houses which USED TO be there.

Following the absolute devastation of the city during the Civil war (burned three times - maybe more - but the records were gone, and nobody was left to tell...), legislators and timber barons built entire streets lined with beautiful Victorian and Beaux Arts mansions. There are MAYBE a dozen of those left. The rest were DEMOLISHED, because modern, heterosexual, home-makers wanted stylish, contemporary homes. Not enough Gay couples... The grand old housing stock was simply THROWN AWAY, because there were few 'Creatives' around to appreciate the old structures.

The city has a wretched excuse for Halloween, and property values are obviously not so hotsy-totsy either, with all that "shrinking" going on (example: sixteen rooms, practically new, middle of best part of town, & WAY under a million - sitting on the market...http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...?source=images). Urban planners go there, and don't understand why vast swaths of the town are just GONE: demolished. "Why don't you rehab....?" Well, there aren't enough Gays in Jackson to gentrify much of anything. People get grants, to establish "arts districts", build "artist's lofts", make an "entertainment district"... But nobody says, "Hey! Our hate legislation and religious hate-mongering drove most of the "creatives" out of the Metro, and mostly out of the South. Half the people who make a city's center fun are GONE. Most of the the artists and performers are gone. Half the buyers of art are gone. There are few producers, and few consumers. Fageddaboudit!"

And as someone who's gentrified a few apartment buildings, I'm here to tell you that Gays are absolutely the best tenants. Smart landlords COMPETE for Gay tenants. Where there are enough Gays, there is potential for reviving old districts. Without them? Mneh...

Oh, and to answer the original post, YES: I was a member of the same gym, there, for thirty years. The loudest homophobes at that gym, over the course of decades, were ALL revealed to be closeted or latent or ACTIVELY (but secretly, and with much angst) involved in same-sex attractions/actions. It made our Cardio Theatre hours fly by, talking about whose fey husband from Eastover (the wealth/power neighborhood), was making it with which homophobic he-man plumber/football standout/tow truck man/termite-exterminator from Pearl (the blue collar town below the Bluff).

And even more common than fey-sophisticated with butch-blue-collar, were the pairings of two big, tough, butch manly men in butch manly-man professions. Case in point: http://kingfish1935.blogspot.com/201...r-edition.html

Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 07-15-2015 at 04:17 PM..
 
Old 07-15-2015, 04:03 PM
 
27,957 posts, read 39,589,513 times
Reputation: 26197
There is, and frankly, should exist a dichotomy. We are guaranteed freedom to worship as we see fit. That should not be taken away.

You also have the right to disagree. Great, we do need that. To silence someone because you don't agree or force them into to something they don't want to do is, and should be, is a travesty.

While I abhor bigoted behavior, it is, within reason, protected.

I am all for equal rights. Also for the right to chose how I practice what I practice. As long as it does not cause harm. No cross burning, killing someone because we don't agree. fight the battles economically instead of through litigation.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,732,220 times
Reputation: 40160
No.

There are far too many homophobic people for the small percentage of the populace that is gay to account for even half of them.

Studies have indeed demonstrated a link between virulent homophobia and sexual arousal in response to pictures of homosexual sex. Specifically, in one study 20% of people from the group consisting of those who expressed various anti-gay sentiments also manifested the aforementioned sexual arousal, compared to control groups that showed much smaller responses to the same sexual stimuli. What this means is that a homophobic person is more likely to be homosexual than a random person selected from the populace at large, but still far more likely (at abut a 4-1 rate) to be a homophobic heterosexual than a homophobic homosexual.
Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals - Scientific American

So, while some homophobes are homosexual, most are not. Thus, no, the most likely bit from your thread headline is inaccurate.

Sorry, we straights can't just dismiss virulent homophobes as closeted gays. The fact is, most of them come from our straight ranks.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,065,133 times
Reputation: 22274
Quote:
Originally Posted by onihC View Post
Likewise.

Society seems to change their views rapidly. Many other things the USA saw as “wrong” slowly has seen acceptance. Alcohol comes to mind. It used to be seen pretty much as the liquid form of evil. Back in the day you could tell someone that one day businesses would focus on serving nothing but alcoholic beverages (bars) and you would be seen as crazy. Now alcohol can be found even in convenience stores or gas stations. Not so long ago it was the same with LGTB and now look how far they have gone. Hey, it is being said that other groups of preferences/orientations also want their voices to be heard. I guess an adult with her/his teenage lover will be next? Hey, its all about celebrating diversity, being open minded, tolerating differences, letting love win, etc. so I guess you wouldn’t have a problem supporting that, right?



Depends on the religion. If you are talking about a gay who follows a new "Gay Religion", different story. If you are talking about a gay that follows Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, Jehovah Witness, etc. then it does sound a bit contradicting just like a vegetarian who eats meat. I've asked religious people about it before and according to their literature it is a sin and these people want to live a life away from sin just like vegetarians want to live a life away from meat.



There is no logic in thinking you can be muslim and support homosexuality or some other religion like that and say you support sin. I guess in your illogical views a vegetarian can eat meat.



Why don't you admit you think anybody who disagrees with you is prejudiced, among other names you call those who disagree with you? Just stick to the debate instead of name-calling which you know you can get away with and know I can't fire back or I get in trouble.
Once again - if you are prejudiced against a group of people - it is not name calling to point that out. It is not up to you to decide who is a "good" religious person and who is not.

Gay marriage is about marriage between two consenting adults. You cannot compare pedophilia to being gay.

You think there is something bad about being gay. I do not. We will never see eye to eye.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,065,133 times
Reputation: 22274
And all this putting down the LGBT community has nothing to do with the OP. The simple fact of the matter is that some homophobes are gay and some are simply homophobes. Some people just need someone to hate.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
5,900 posts, read 10,478,287 times
Reputation: 4494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdroplet76 View Post
Once again - if you are prejudiced against a group of people - it is not name calling to point that out. It is not up to you to decide who is a "good" religious person and who is not.

Gay marriage is about marriage between two consenting adults. You cannot compare pedophilia to being gay.

You think there is something bad about being gay. I do not. We will never see eye to eye.
Very well said
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