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In my experience, those who fall back on the "natural order of things" argument generally haven't the foggiest clue how to lead a relationship, and generally do not have respect for women as individuals.
If that phrase-- the natural order of things-- ever came out of my partner's mouth, I'd laugh myself silly. The fact is, our relationship, where he has been given authority, is just ours. I have chosen to give him authority (to submit) to him because of who he is as an individual- not merely because of what is between his legs. My submission to him came from a place of strength, of knowing what he had to offer in the relationship.
It's a man that's pointing out that the whole natural order of things theory is B.S. Read the thread please.
I think most women want the best leader (regardless of the sex) in positions which require leadership. Personal relationships (such as a marriage) do not require leadership. They require, trust, respect, and honesty.
I don't have data, I have a lifetime of discussing men and what we want out of relationships with a multitude of different girls and women.
I don't have data, I have a lifetime of discussing men and what we want out of relationships with a multitude of different girls and women.
very telling that you used "girls" before you used "women". I don't know a single woman who would want their husband to "lead" them; not a single one. I have a cadre of women I know throughout my lifetime, and they all want a trusting partnership involving mutual respect and trust.
very telling that you used "girls" before you used "women". I don't know a single woman who would want their husband to "lead" them; not a single one. I have a cadre of women I know throughout my lifetime, and they all want a trusting partnership involving mutual respect and trust.
I used "girls/women" because those discussions began in girlhood/childhood and progressed to discussions as women as we grew.
You are not understanding leadership and confusing it with telling someone what to do or one person being the "boss" or submission/domination. That is not leadership, see my earlier post on (I think) page one.
I myself am strong, self-supporting and more than competent, but I still want a man who wants to lead. Of course I want mutual respect and trust as well. One has nothing to do with the other, in fact a leader who doesn't treat people with respect and doesn't build trust is not going to have any followers. This is the crux of the title question (although now I see OP was never interested in an answer), and what I explained in my earlier post.
I think your "most women" thing doesn't line up with my experience either. Maybe in my early twenties I wanted a "big strong man" archetype, but none of my friends would want that now. We'd want someone who has their act together, or who takes care of business generally, and who doesn't need someone to mother him, but I don't think that's what the OP means.
I think your "most women" thing doesn't line up with my experience either. Maybe in my early twenties I wanted a "big strong man" archetype, but none of my friends would want that now. We'd want someone who has their act together, or who takes care of business generally, and who doesn't need someone to mother him, but I don't think that's what the OP means.
Yeah, that's the thing: I don't understand why any adult needs their partner to lead them, unless they were exceptionally passive.
Yeah, that's the thing: I don't understand why any adult needs their partner to lead them, unless they were exceptionally passive.
There's the difference as I see it personally.
I don't need a leader in my life, I want one. Fact is, I'm fully capable of taking care of myself. I simply am most fulfilled when I am in a relationship where I can give final authority in decision-making over to someone else.
I don't need a leader in my life, I want one. Fact is, I'm fully capable of taking care of myself. I simply am most fulfilled when I am in a relationship where I can give final authority in decision-making over to someone else.
And that's fine, so long as it's what your partner truly wants as well. Me, I cannot imaging my husband having that level of authority over me, nor would he want to have it. Consequently, I also accept responsibility for owning the outcome.
I think your "most women" thing doesn't line up with my experience either. Maybe in my early twenties I wanted a "big strong man" archetype, but none of my friends would want that now. We'd want someone who has their act together, or who takes care of business generally, and who doesn't need someone to mother him, but I don't think that's what the OP means.
I never said anything about a big, strong man.
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